Urgently need advice for friend re disturbed DIL.

What a mess!
The MIL appears to have been taken in by the woman's story hook, line and sinker sadly. Where's your friend's son in all this?

I honestly don't have any ideas at all, sorry.

The son?? He's so ineffectual that he disappears into the background. We all think he's given up and just goes to work and plays computer games.

I'm slightly lost on the relationships here - is this lass married to your friend's son? Have I got that right? And this lass's mother was also your friend up until her death?

How does your friend's son figure in all this? Does he have anything to say about the situation? Does he think his wife is depressed?

I am assuming that there is a suggestion here that the DIL might have been sexually abused in her childhood and this goes a long way to explaining her behaviour. Such children often become adults who are unable to trust those around them and need a lot of attention and reassurance - hence the attention-seeking behaviour.

Your friend must be very worried about the GC. Are SSD involved at all? Has the school identified any problems with any of them? Or the HV, if they are small?

It sounds as though your friend does need some support and backup - is her OH helpful and supportive and what does he think?

It sounds to me too as though she is disturbed, heaven knows what happened to her as a child. But she seems thoroughly manipulative and untrustworthy.

It is the children who need it all sorted out, but their father doesn't appear to be much use.

Does your friend (the MiL) know all the back story? If she doesn't and you tell her, would it make things better or worse? Would she then feel so sorry for the her DiL that she would do even more for her, or would she get some kind of perspective on the whole thing?

Could she get DiL's GP in on it? - she couldn't learn anything confidential, but she could tell her side of the story and perhaps it would go on the medical record (though I don't know whether they would put on anything from a third party) Or Social Services because it could be affecting the children?

You've got relationships right, Mishap, I've been friends with the mother, the daughter and mother in law. My friend (mil) is widowed so she has no support at home. Son just seems to shrug and go with the flow. He's opted out.

I don't think SSD are involved but I think they maybe shouid be. The children are not unaffected - oldest girl has just been referred to child psychology because of lack of confidence, getting picked on because she's about 4 stone overweight. (12 years of pizza and chocolate). I understand that the primary school is keeping an eye on the younger 2 as their behaviour is a little 'odd'.

I also think the MIL has been taken in by the woman's story. If she needed medication for suicidal thoughts she would have them now. Very little psychotropic medication works instantly and has to build up in the bodies chemistry.
I also agree totally with Mishaps post.
Where is the woman finding money for her trips out?

Maybe she's not so much taken in by the DIL's stories as concerned to provide at least some sort of continuity and care for the children? Whether or not the DIL is feigning her problems the poor children must be suffering and what Gran could stand back and not just help out?

That's it Elegran-manipulative and untrustworthy. Yes, mil is aware of a lot of the back story and rues the day her son ever got involved. It was a uni relationship that should have been left there but 'unexpected' pregnancy intervened. I'm not sure that she feels sorry for DIL as such, but she is doing this for her dgc. I think she's just so grateful to be allowed into the children's life and to be included that she's choosing not to question things too closely.

I'd be inclined to involve Social Services.

My advice is to stay out of it.
Plenty of people are already involved. And people choose to do what they choose to do.

It's really difficult as you could lose the friendship but it certainly sounds as if without her input the children would definitely be at risk.
DIL sounds very manipulative, and knows exactly what she's doing.

If the school's keeping an eye on the two younger children presumably they would as Children and Families to step in?

I did think of that Anya, but this situation seems to have been going on for a long time, and school must know heaps already.

How does your friend feel about being in this situation? - is she happy (and able) to continue with her input? If she is, then for the time being these children will benefit from her presence.

It must be very worrying for her, and I can see that a referral to SSD might be appropriate to provide support, but that your friend might feel uncomfortable about making that referral herself.

This poor DIL clearly has so many problems that she needs help with that she has nothing left for being a good mother - all the more reason for your friend to be trying to fill some of the gaps. But she should not do so at the expense of her own health and well being.The son needs to step up to the plate a bit and be the strong parent, but it sounds as though he is so overwhelmed by it all that he is not able to take on that role.

I really do not think that there is anything that you can do, except to be a strong shoulder to lean on for your friend. It may be that she is being "taken advantage of", but she may see this as a reasonable price to pay to secure some continuity and security in the lives of her GC. It is very sad the childhoods that some people have, and hers has clearly not prepared her for motherhood and so the cycle starts again.

If there's any hint that the children might be at risk SSD must be involved. You cannot assume that the school is aware of the situation, though they ought to be.

You can call Social Services anonymously if you feel that is appropriate.

I know everyone is different but I've never been able to socialise, go to the hairdressers etc when I've been suicidal. Also if you have suicidal episodes the professionals don't usually just sit around waiting for the next one. She'd at least be on meds and regular GP appointments.

When I've been suicidal my meds have been reduced to as low as weekly prescriptions to make sure I don't have enough to do any damage if I overdose. And they're not on repeat so I have to go in every week. Even then DH is in control of them and only gives them to me when I should have them.

I think the DIL has been affected by her childhood and has some sort of mental disorder but I'm not sure it's standard depression. The problem is that depression can often be a symptom of other disorders. I say I'm depressed because it's easier for people to understand and feel safe around me than saying I have emotionally unstable personality disorder (used to be known as borderline personality disorder) or ptsd or social anxiety disorder or the myriad of other disorders I've been diagnosed with.

If social services aren't involved then I think a phone call is in order. This can be done anonymously. The children may be safe but better that it's checked out.

Sorry my post crossed the Anya's.

If you have already cut this woman out of your life it would be a mistake to get involved. I would be inclined to take a very large step back. Be there for MIL to talk to but do nothing yourself, it could get very messy.

Sorry harrigran but if there is any chance children are at risk 'not getting involved' is not an option.

An anonymous call to SS would alert them if they don't already know, and reinforce their information if they do.

Kate has already said that the girl's MIL is looking after the children, she is in a better position to inform SS, does not require third party intervention.

My take would be to continue to support your friend, but not to become involved in the whole complexity of her family's issues. She may well value your friendship simply because you are not a part of it all. Keep it that way so she has you as a harbour. Sometimes it is best to step back rather than to step in.
Maintain good and responsible boundaries. If I was this friend, that's what I'd want - not someone getting involved.

I don't think the MIL would be the best person to contact social services as it could backfire on her and affect her already strained relationship with her son and DIL. A call from an anonymous third party would be better.

Crossed posts harri.

Isn't it liikely that the daughter has got what is termed a "personality disorder"? I think it can present itself in a number of ways, which may include hysterical and manipulative behaviour, a tendency to lie, narcissism, lack of empathy, etc. etc. I believe psychiatrists say it cannot be adequately "treated" or "cured". Given the woman's background and the strong possibility that she had been sexually abused in childhood, it's understandable that she is not a very balanced person.

However, whatever the reason, it is very sad that her children are living in such a chaotic and damaging environment and I would guess the mother-in-law wants to do what she can to help them. I'm not sure how social service departments work but I believe they only remove children if they are in moral or physical danger or are being emotionally abused. Given that your friend (the m-i-l) is providing quite a lot of support, maybe social services could offer some extra support to take the weight off your friend's shoulders. Perhaps other Gransnet ex- or current social workers know if SSDs can provide any sort of help?

I'm not sure what you can do to help your friend, other than be there for her when she needs to talk - and perhaps to help with little practical matters. If someone on here who has social work experience can give their opinion as to whether it would be helpful to involve social services, perhaps you could then discuss it with your friend.