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Health

NHS a sinking ship?

(66 Posts)
tanith Sat 06-May-17 12:37:16

I'm sure most people do agree that our NHS is now under such pressure it's at breaking point.
Who to blame and is it too late ? Discuss!

Charleygirl Sat 06-May-17 12:58:16

If one needs emergency treatment eg via a blue light ambulance, the treatment is second to none as I have experienced but common and garden problems like getting a joint replaced is becoming more difficult.

MawBroon Sat 06-May-17 13:05:59

No it is not a sinking ship but the Ambukance service along with A&E are like a lifeboat. And you don't expect them to launch the lifeboats if you got your feet wet in a puddle.

MawBroon Sat 06-May-17 13:06:19

"Ambulance" of course

Charleygirl Sat 06-May-17 13:51:34

"are" not is.

tanith Sat 06-May-17 15:56:48

I agree with you that A & E seem to be just about coping but I fear for the future of this wonderful institution. There don't seem to be any answers to its steady decline, not one political party seem able/willing to halt it's demise.sad

durhamjen Sat 06-May-17 16:08:09

Only one political party can do anything about it at the moment and they don't want to.

If we want to keep the NHS we need to ensure they do not get back in on 8th June.
Otherwise it will end up like a US style health service, and you can see what trump is going to do to that.

vampirequeen Sat 06-May-17 16:15:10

It's not a sinking a ship. It's a totally underfunded service that is deliberately being destroyed bit by bit. It can be saved simply by a large injection of cash.

Who's to blame? The government. They decided to reduce the funding. They decided to sell of chunks of it to the private sector. Us for not shouting about it from the roof tops.

If we want a free at point of need NHS then we'd better start fighting for it. Look at the election literature. Look who is promising not only to fund the NHS but to fund it sufficiently and keep it in public hands not slyly sell it off and vote for that Party.

rosesarered Sat 06-May-17 16:18:46

I can't see how it can continue in it's present form .They have been talking about it's many problems for years without an answer.The only answers are put up Taxes ( not a popular move) or change things somehow , more like other countries.

Teetime Sat 06-May-17 16:19:51

The NHS treat thousands and thousands of people day after day after day after day. If the successive governments stopped tinkering with it and heaping on an enormous bureaucratic burden, allowed clinicians rather than administrators and jargon ridden 'managers' to manage it things would be much better.

Liz46 Sat 06-May-17 16:22:03

I have had good treatment from the NHS in the last few months. I had my cataracts done very quickly and efficiently after referral.
My lungs have been giving me trouble for some time and I discovered that one of the GPs in our practice is interested in respiratory problems so I started to pester her.
Eventually she sent me for a CT scan where a problem was detected and I have had other tests, seen a respiratory consultant and feel well looked after.

kittylester Sat 06-May-17 16:29:14

I agree with both roses and teetime!

The NHS was never meant to cope with all the expensive advances that have come along since it's inception. Add 'managers' and fear of being sued to the advances in medical treatment and it's no wonder it can't cope. And people expect too much of the creaking system!

tanith Sat 06-May-17 16:32:45

I agree that the present Government isn't doing anything to rescue things but I worked in the NHS for 20 years and in my last 10 yrs the then Labour Government were already bringing in private Ambulance Services to take over Patient Transport Services.
As I say I cannot hand on heart trust any of the present Politicians to 'do the right thing'. I could actually weep for its loss as people seem to be so blind to the reality of life without our NHS. ???

trisher Sat 06-May-17 16:52:39

The Tory government are to blame, they spent money on an unnecessary and expensive top down re-organisation and then starved the system of cash. They undervalued and persecuted Junior doctors and removed nursing bursaries. You might almost think that they wanted to damage the NHS permanently!
But of course as that nice Mr Cameron said they are totally committed to the NHS. (Remember him he was the one in charge before he jacked it in and handed over to that nice Mrs May)
If you were a bit cynical you might think that they were plotting to get rid of it, but they have said they're not and they always keep their promises don't they? (Well except for the one about No top down reorganisation, oh and not resigning oh and a few other things)

rosesarered Sat 06-May-17 17:01:14

It's not the fault of any one political party, in fact am not at all sure it's the fault of any political party really.The services the NHS provides have grown and grown, the population has grown and grown, and it's reached the point ( a while ago) where something has to give!

Ana Sat 06-May-17 17:05:25

I agree roses. The NHS has become unmanageable and throwing bits of money here and there at it isn't going to solve the basic problem.

No party is going to have the guts (or the wherewithall) to do what needs doing, i.e. complete redesign.

durhamjen Sat 06-May-17 17:10:16

No it hasn't roses. It needs some more cash instead of privatising it bit by bit, as trisher says.
Lots of people have been saying that for years, tanith. Wea re trying to do things about it, but it is definitely the Tory government that wants an American style insurance based system.
Lots of us will not be able to afford that. Never mind, it'll kill us off when we are asked to either afford medication, food or fuel.

I hope that Burnham does some good with the health and social care budget that he's been given, so we can see which party can save the NHS.

durhamjen Sat 06-May-17 17:12:42

The Tories did a complete redesign, and look what a mess they made of it.
I know because I was in hospital when it came in.
The new headed paper cost them lots and was unnecessary.
These STPs that are coming in at the moment is another redesign which is intended to shift the burden of responsibility on to the authorities instead of the government.

vampirequeen Sat 06-May-17 17:16:53

We are a wealthy country and can afford a properly funded NHS.

Does anyone really want to change the system to that of other countries? I know too many people around the world who can't afford to access medical help. Does anyone really want to only see a doctor if they can afford to pay for a consultation then pay for any prescribed medication?

Does anyone on here remember the times before the NHS? My mam does and says she remembers her mam and dad being terrified of illness striking and the family hiding from the doctor's man when he came to collect payment.

Ana Sat 06-May-17 17:17:14

That's not a 'complete redesign' - in reality it would take years to achieve.

What makes you think any government would suddenly demand that every citizen have private health insurance? Obviously that wouldn't happen, it wouldn't affect those on benefits etc. (including pensioners) anyway.

But rant away if you must...

Lazigirl Sat 06-May-17 17:34:11

It's just not true to say that a wealthy country such as the UK cannot afford the brilliant NHS. It is remarkably efficient considering the diminishing amount GDP spent on it compared to other Western countries. (Kings Fund figures). It is clearly a political agenda to run down and privatise the system, so that insurance schemes can take over. It is an interesting, but concerning fact, that the USA spends far more per head on health, private and state funded, but their life expectancy is lower than ours.

Cold Sat 06-May-17 17:37:36

Te government has made it quite clear that the do not intend to pump more money in to keep pace with inflation - the NHS will either be privatised or charges will be introduced.

This has happened in other countries - such as Sweden when the currency devalued in the 1990s.

GillT57 Sat 06-May-17 17:52:57

It is a political hot potato, and no one party is brave enough to say that we need a a radical rethink about how we go forward with the NHS. It is something that we all use, and even the most right wing free marketeer supports the free at point of use principles. The comments made by many, both on here and on Question Time etc about administration and costs associated with it, all fail to recognise that without the targets, and cuts to services, there wouldn't be the need for ward managers, and admin staff on every corner. If you watch any of the real life hospital programmes you will see surgeons lined up ready to operate, patients all prepped, and some poor soul of a bed manager trying to move another patient out of ITU into a general post surgical ward, a bed which is occupied by a 'bed blocker' ( horrid term). The problem seems to be at the back door so to speak, rather than the front. So, yes, we need funding, but perhaps better directed, not just flung at it. Funding of social care, convalescing wards perhaps, would move everything along. An expensive surgical team can be standing around for hours, waiting for the ITU bed to become available before they are able to operate. There is also a fair bit of waste in the NHS, on emergency admission, my DH had the foresight to take his current medication with him. Not only was it not used on the ward, it was thrown away. A terrific waste of money. We all know the eye watering costs of USA medical care, but what about closer to home? DH was chatting to a fellow cricket fan last week as they sat in the sun, and the other chap told him about having an attack of cellulitis whilst on holiday in Guernsey. The hospital admission, treatment and medication cost £7000!

Bobbysgirl19 Sat 06-May-17 17:57:23

I agree tanith not down to any particular political party. Lack of resources for rmany years and I also think bad management of what they do have. Too many Chiefs and not enough Indians, as the saying goes!

Bobbysgirl19 Sat 06-May-17 18:01:02

Good post GillT57