Private health and compensation

I agree - any urgent needs at the local Nuffield are blue-lighted to the neatest NHS hospital.

And my hip replacement is still not right after 3 years and it has been shunted to the NHS to deal with.

Not good.

I agree that treatment can go wrong in private hospitals, but there is no evidence that you are any safer in an NHS hospital. Every year it pays out £billions to patients for poor and damagingtreatment, not to mention those who die while waiting for delayed treatment.

I had my cataracts treated privately after the local hospital bungled an operation on someone I knew, leaving them virtually blinded in one eye and I experienced problems when, despite constantly telling the staff treating me that I had an allergy, it was not put down in my notes and treatment went ahead regardless.

We have also on occasion paid for private treatment because of NHS indifference to problems, that when receiving proper investigation privately, proved to be serious.

monica that is not what the doctors were saying on the programme. I think what they are really pointing out that in a matter of life or death then you are always safe4 in a NHS hospital.

Of course things go wrong in both types of service. Interestingly though and I am unclear as to the mechanics the NHS frequently picks up the compensation bill for those who have died/dying as a result of the private sector bungling the operation. A lawyer said she felt very uncomfortable regarding this. What they all admitted is that money frequently takes priority over clinical need.

In the case of critical illness I quite agree that the NHS is unsurpassed, but private hospitals are not in that sector of the health service.

Mostly what the private sector does is elective work and minor procedures where either the inflexibility of the NHS or the waiting lists are causing, pain and suffering or curtailing the patients capacity to earn their living. Those are the circumstances that have lead us to use private hospitals on occasion.

That some compensation money is paid by the NHS for private hospital bungles I accept, but by far the greater part of it, and it is a very great part in monetary terms, is paid for errors and mistakes caused 100% by the NHS.

I do not know of any system, whether medical, social, legal or anything else, whether paid or private that is totally free from mistakes and errors. Whatever system you use their is a risk of a catastrophic malfunction.

Higher incidence of infection in NHS hospitals unfortunately.

I think the point being made here is that if something goes wrong in a private hospital, the patient is transferred to the NHS as an emergency and the NHS appears to pick up the tab. Similar things are happening when people have bungled cosmetic surgery abroad and have it put right on the NHS - these cases are multiplying

Well I suppose most patients in private hospitals are also NHS patients ie pay tax and national insurance just like the other patients? I don't know about visitors though.

But does that matter Jane? Some of the transferred patients have had procedures not available on the NHS - there was a footballers wife who was transferred following a liposuction and she had several NHS operations to try to put right( I think there was severe bladder and bowel damage) and then weeks in IC before she sadly died.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/11043262/Safety-of-private-hospitals-questioned-as-report-reveals-hundreds-die-unexpectedly.html

Some interesting facts in this article

What they were also saying that there is evidence that people are paying for procedures which are either unnecessary, more expensive than a perfectly viable alternative and in a few cases not suitable for in the case shown cancer. So it is neither minor nor will patients receive compensation in the event it goes wrong.

jane there is no evidence that there is less infection in private hospitals as they do not report their infection rate as far as I am aware

But the majority of private patients do not go private for major surgery. Looking at the list of prices for my local hospital the operations listed are mainly relatively simple ones: cataracts, carpal tunnel treatment, some plastic surgery. I think the number of complex operations carried is quite small.

DH and I have opted for private treatment on 5 occasions. 4 were cataract surgery and the 5th did not require surgery, just a consultation, MRI scan and steroid injections under xray. All were done because either we had no confidence in the NHS, based on previous experience and one because of GP indifference when someone was in extreme pain for a prolonged period. In each case everything went ahead without problem.

Whitewave yes they do report infection levels! I especially checked as I am interested in clinical governance. The care pathways were noticeably good in our local private hospital as was the care generally.
I was struck by the number of consultants, anaesthetists and physios who were retired from NHS. Many nurses were from agencies but preferred working there as they could choose their days to fit round childcare. I was there for knee replacement. I have no idea how things are regarding cosmetic procedures.

Extracts from an article in The Telegraph in 2014:

"In recent years, a series of tragedies has focused attention on the NHS and patient safety. Quite rightly, the public believes that the NHS must take responsibility for its failings so that scandals, such as that in Mid Staffs, can never happen again. But until recently the private health-care sector has managed to avoid significant scrutiny.

"However, following a freedom of information request to the Care Quality Commission, figures released last week showed that there were more than 800 unexpected deaths and nearly 1,000 people injured in private hospitals over a four-year period. Given the relatively small amount of patients treated within the private sector, this is shocking.

"If your treatment is straightforward then there’s nothing to worry about. It’s when there’s a problem that the cracks suddenly appear. ..... The new figures showed that in one year, 2,600 patients were transferred to the NHS as an emergency and in all, 6,000 patients were handed over to it.

For several years I worked in the A&E department of a London teaching hospital, close to several prestigious private hospitals and clinics. It was common practice for the latter to dump acutely unwell patients in casualty, often leaving them without any proper hand-over notes or details of the procedures that had been carried out... Most private hospitals don’t even have an ambulance to transport a patient to A&E, and will just call 999. Most have limited medical cover at night and at weekends, no resuscitation teams and no intensive care or high dependency facilities. Sure, you might have an HD TV in your room, but what’s the use of that if you’re haemorrhaging and they can’t give you a blood transfusion?"

My husband had a hip replacement in a NHS hospital 2 weeks before my son’s father-in-law had his in a private hospital.

My husband’s care was far superior. Son’s FIL received no after care information or offer of equipment to aid his recovery and his family were only able to cope with information from us and had to arrange hire of equipment themselves. He also received very little physiotherapy while in hospital: on one occasion the physiotherapist turned up, said hello then disappeared. When he asked what had happened he was told she had gone off duty.

I have a friend who is a retired nurse and has worked in both NHS and private hospitals. She says she would never agree to anyone in her family going private as th care is far superior in NHS hospitals. However the accommodation and food are probably better!

Thanks for that Eloethan. My mum needed a hearing aid so at her insistence I gave her the number of a private company, she wouldn't have supersavers or any well known private company. The private place sent a charming chap to her house, talked through the options and charged £600+. He delivered the appliance but she couldn't use it cos its too small for her fingers to grasp so its never been used. There was no follow up care either.

My DH elected to go Private (same Consultant as on NHS) as he had BUPA through his Employer (he was taxed on this benefit). He had a Triple A (Aortic Abdominal Anyurism) which was operable size.

His 1st Operation was cancelled as there were no ICU beds available however a couple of weeks later he went in for his Operation which was performed in the afternoon (1st one was scheduled for the morning).

A Major Operation such as his requires the NHS for care afterwards until the Patient can be transferred into Private care. I have nothing but praise for staff in both NHS & Private Hospital.

Jane43 I think that your son's FIL was unlucky. I've just had a new hip at our local Nuffield hospital. I went privately partly because there was no waiting list. I was given the necessary equipment before I left hospital (raised toilet seat, grabber, chair leg raisers, elbow crutches etc) . I saw a physio two or three times while I was still in hospital (my stay was just two nights) who gave me a full programme of exercises and answered any questions and concerns that I had. I've also got three months free access to one of their gyms (with physio help there too) so I can go whenever I choose to use the gym or swimming pool. I can't fault the nursing care at all - and the choice of food was excellent too!

In 2000 I was taken by ambulance to Basildon Hospital with pneumonia. The assessment included having blood drawn from my wrist, which took place in a small storage room, where drugs and dressings were kept. The nurse stood in front of me (there was little room) and as she inserted the needle into the little vein on my wrist, the door behind her burst open and she was pushed violently into my lap. Extremely painful! An X-ray was required, but no porters were available so my husband pushed me to the X-ray dept which involved going outside (February). The dept was shut, but my DH managed to find someone and the X-ray was taken.After several hours alternating between sitting in a wheelchair and lying on a hard bench (I kept getting moved as the doctor needed the bench for a consultation) I was put in a "holding Ward" supposedly just overnight. This was a mixed Ward with one toilet (with no seat) which was shared between us the "in" patients, and the long queues of people waiting to see a doctor at the bottom of our beds. This toilet was also the dumping ground for disposable urinals, sick bowls and bloodied bandages (I have photos). There was only one shower (again, like the toilet, for both sexes) so a nurse brought plastic washing bowls to us each morning. The old man opposite was incontinent and called for a nurse by running his stick along the radiator. The man next to me was in extreme pain from a spinal injury, frequently screaming, and the woman next to me had dementia, singing hymns all night. The queues of people began each morning around 8 am and were there until about 10 at night. I was admitted around midnight. Notices were on the walls asking patients to please tell staff if we had private insurance. We did have private insurance but because this is primarily for elective patients they told my husband they would move me to a private hospital if HE could find a consultant willing to treat me. He managed to, and after a week of living in the "third world" I was moved to the Nuffield hospital where I was kept in quarantine in case I had acquired MRSA at Basildon. I was there for 3 weeks.

My family's experience is very good. What is necessary for private hospital operations is to research the consultants before doing anything else. Most of them also work in the NHS so there will be two sources to gain infi from.

My wife has had a new hip (full), new knee, open heart surgery to replace the left aorta valve ( the one that does most of the work) and the removal of a cancerous kidney.

In all cases the operations before during and after have been very good. Forwartd monitoring of heart and kidney function is also good. The physio after both joint ops was good.

My wife is fully recovered I am pleased to say even though three of the operations were done within 6 months, something the surgeons do not recommend except for urgency as in my wife's case. I would happily recommend all four surgeons.

This does not mean that I am not aware of problems that can arise in both the NHS and private hospitals. That will depend largely on the management. Keeping involved and up to date with what is happening locally is advised even if you do not expect to need an operation.

I suspect that its similar to private v state education which I know a lot more about. In both cases the state run facility has more funds available but far less regulation. There are some very good private schools but also many poor ones. The same may be true of private hospitals. And ar less monitoring to ensure good standards are reached!

Whitewave
My late neighbour, several years ago, decided on private surgery to get his hip replacement carried out sooner than what the NHS could give. He had no quality of life due to the intense pain he was in.
He was refused the op at the private hospital after they had given him a full health check ie bloods e c g and various others and they had a letter from his own GP outlining the facts he had in the past suffered blackouts which were controlled by medication but there was always the risk one could be fatal. This hospital clearly had this mans interests at heart and were honest enough to tell him they did not have the necessary facilities that a major NHS hospital would have in the event his life was at risk. He did eventually get a NHS op and came through ok. Which shows not all private hospitals just think cash.

Anything bog standard is fine with the private companies it seems - although I think the only advantage you have is to get some choice about when the procedure is carried out. I am also a bit uneasy at the much publicised 'overworked' doctors do a stint for the NHS and then perform operation in the evenings at private hospitals; my major operation was done at about 7 pm! I also found the nursing staff a bit indifferent - and I am not a difficult person in any way regarding being looked after - I would rather look after myself - but even a mild request for another blanket was met with a sigh of resignation.
It was also a 'truth universally acknowledged' that any emergency arising from treatments or surgery at the private hospital resulted in the patient being whisked along the road to the local General hospital.

Luckygirl, my experience was just the opposite. A year ago I had revision of right hip replacement, the original was done in 1987 in the private sector. No problems at all. Almost 30 years before it started causing any difficulty. I don't think that was bad.