Grandaughters bedtime

I agree, Elena, though there have been some other threads recently where OP did come back a few times. It makes such a difference. Some people put a lot of thought into their responses and it takes time to write- feel it’s just wasted if there’s no feedback from OP.

Oh dear . 60 plus replies and the OP never reappears to answer questions or acknowledge the time and care people have shown in bothering to respond. My pet hate on Gransnet, I'm afraid.

Frankly, when my children were small, I didn't care if they were tired or not, I was tired and needed a break from them. They had to have a bedtime - for my sake. Also, it was a way of them learning that they couldn't have everything their own way, life isn't like that. When it's a battle of wills, the parent has to win, otherwise it's the start of the slippery slope. Give in to that and it proves you'll cave in over other things if they work on you long enough.

LOL, Paddyann - I wish I had known monsters were allergic to lavender when my children and grandchildren were growing up.

Try not to worry unless she is noticeably nodding off in the daytime. Some children don't need much sleep; some need sleep but are natural owls or larks.

It was always a problem getting my elder son to sleep, he never admitted he was tired and after we went to bed we'd hear him playing with lego in his bedroom (this was pre-school, no central heating in those days so he used to get very cold). My husband suggested that we stayed up with him until he admitted he was tired; I gave up at about 4 am, 6 am my husband gave up and insisted he went to bed. At 9 he woke us up crashing about as he had gone downstairs to get his breakfast. He's now in his late 40s, still stays up until 2 or 3 in the morning but manages to get up and go to work with no apparent problem.

I must admit I've never been early to bed and always put a torch on after my parents went to bed so I could read for another couple of hours - but I've never been able to get up in the morning either! While my daughter always nodded off early but woke us up at some (to me) unearthly hour; she still goes to bed at 9 for preference but has no problem getting up to go to work at 5!

I used to watch the supernanny programs and Jo Frost spent a lot of time getting children into sensible sleep routines which the parents had failed to do by not setting good routines to start with.

There will of course be children with particular issues who cannot manage a sensible pattern. I was really lucky with mine who were in general very good sleepers.

When I last baby sat my DGSs I bathed them (that was fun ) and gave them s drink and put them to bed with good night kisses and telling them they could talk very quietly to each other and I did not hear a peep. I wasn't sure how they would behave.

But most children behave better when the person in charge is someone they don't know quite as well as their mum and dad.

Eglantine21 You posted what I was thinking.

Sorry Bluebell but that simply is not the case. We have lots of Asd in our family and some of them are high functioning enough to hide their anxiety in front of other people but it has to come out somewhere. If you have a good read about PDA you will see that this is in fact classic behaviour.

Mine never had a bedtime. They went to bed when they were tired. It's only an issue if you make it an issue.

This is rewarding bad behaviour by letting her have her own way. It's bonkers. My children were allowed to look at books in bed if they weren't tired and could switch out the light when they wanted (within reason) but they had to stay in their own beds and not call out to each other. That worked out very well.
Offering a choice instead of an ultimatum often works. Go to bed at 8pm and look at books OR stay down until 8.10 and the lights out. But it's essential that the parent doesn't waiver, children see weakness immediately.

It’s worth checking with the school to see if there could anything there that is bothering the child.

Glad Quizqueens not my Mum
If you don’t have problems with your grandchild Icanhandthembavk then she’s not on any spectrum if she’s choosing who to mess with
Grannygranby I started reading my old Enid Blyton books to my grandkids by the time I had changed half the scenarios and sentences I d practically rewritten the story we had Mum smoking in the kitchen before she gave teddy a slap on the legs etc etc I gave up

hahah I'm with Gabriella - more Enid Blyton ... as a child I loved them. I was about 5 or six when I was hooked on Happy Stories etc I thought all stories ended with a moral. I wonder how they would go down with six year olds today

Nannakathy, please don't think I'm awful but it is almost a relief to see someone asking this. My DGD is exactly the same at bedtime. She also has meltdowns over getting dressed most mornings. The thing is, she doesn't get away with it but her parents have tried all the usual positive things and punishments. They are at their wits end. I have been looking at Pathological Demand Avoidance which is on the Autistic Spectrum but the children are often much more outgoing like my DGD. However, her parents are convinced it is just "bad behaviour". I don't have the same problems with her but I think that is more an issue of trust than anything else. She doesn't know quite what I'll do to her if she doesn't settle down but she knows her parents won't smack her if she shows her anxiety. I have suggested they let her read until she's tired but they think that would be giving in. I just want her to be assessed to find out what the problem is. They have talked to the school but they seem to think such behaviour is quite normal...it wasn't in my day.

This child needs to be told how things are going to be in the future and what the consequences will be for inappropriate behaviour. Has no one watched Super Nanny!!!!

Insist on her being up in her room at the same time every night after a bath, a bedtime story and a cuddle- all upstairs. Allow her to read or listen to a story tape or some quiet music (classical, lullaby or nursery rhyme- not pop! ) if she says she is not tired. If she gets up and comes downstairs, take her firmly by the hand and back up her room with NO conversation or eye contact- make it a very boring event being downstairs. This could be multiple times every evening for a few weeks.

Try not to have the tv on in the lounge after tea until she is asleep so she cannot hear it and certainly no screens in her bedroom. If she kicks or shouts then take a toy away of your choice - the consequences- with NO discussion at the time because you have already told her what will happen- these can be 'won' back individually with good behaviour.

DO NOT GIVE IN or CHANGE THE ROUTINE unless her behaviour has changed over a long period and she can be trusted to be more adaptable. Children behave badly because they are allowed to; she is not the one in charge in the house and she has to be made to realise that some times are for adults only because children need longer rests to be healthy and adults need adult time to remain sane!!!.

I agree that some children just don't need much sleep. My GD is like this. As a baby she was very wakeful and till the age of 3 she kept her parents awake at night crying for them at all hours. Now she's 12 and goes to bed at a normal time but is allowed to read till she's sleepy. (No screens in bedroom.) She also reads quietly when she wakes early in the morning. Luckily she loves reading books! She does lots (and I do mean lots) of physical exercise during the day too, but rarely appears tired.
I do think the fear thing should be investigated though. One post reminded me vividly that I was frequently visited by a witch at night as a child and was absolutely terrified till my mum came and told her to go away!

I remember telling my children if they could stay awake all night they would get a 50p piece. They never managed it, it is hard to lie still and keep your eyes open. Joking aside, if your granddaughter can't sleep why not tell her she can look at books quietly until she's tired. Or could she listen to a relaxation tape?

We had one who would go to bed and sleep. The other who would go to bed and stay awake. It could be a natural thing for her. Might be worth her staying up a bit later, having a relax time, then bed.

As mentioned up thread you do not say how much screen time she has in the evening.If she is using a tablet ,even if the content is not scary , the blue light is said to inhibit sleep and shut be shut down an hour before bedtime.

I can relate to so many posters up thread with our non- sleeper and she's still the same aged 47; a very accomplished adult who rises at 3.00 a.m. most mornings to get through her heavy work schedule, care for her family and complete the housework with a trip to the gym and a Zumba session most days.

I remarked to the clinic at the 6 week stage that she was awake through feeds and wouldn't sleep until after the second one. Their reaction was she'll sleep when she needs it. People advised wait till she's crawling, then, wait till she's walking, then it was wait till she starts school! At the age of three the GP referred us to a consultant at the children's hospital. She said, she's not like other children, because she doesn't need much sleep! She then referred to M. Thatcher and W. Churchill as non- sleepers. We felt relieved that there was no real problem other than she just wasn't tired at the perceived traditional bedtime.

So we established bedtime routine with bath, and ready for bed around 7.30 p.m. followed by bedtime story/stories and then she was able to draw, play and sing as long as she was in her room, till she was tired - no computers or tablets then. This continued for years. After a while, we decided it was detrimental for her to be alone in her room for hours so she was allowed to stay downstairs till 9 or 10 even before going to her room. She was sometimes awake into the early hours. People used to try to tell us we should be doing this and that. We knew different.

Some children just don't need as much sleep as others. I would say keep her busy in her room as long as it's safe. Make sure she's not unhappy about something of course and that there is no underlying childhood fear of the dark or fairy story monsters. Then establish a 'bedtime' and that any time after that is wind down time in the bedroom. Exhausting when there's two of you, so it must be really hard as a single Mum.

When she was 6 she came home from school one day and fell asleep on her bed in her school uniform around 6.30 and I said, she's ill. Her father said, No, she's just gone to sleep at a normal time for once. She had German measles.

Agree with Daddima. This is probably not about fears or sleepiness, it is attention-seeking. Calm consistency and insistence is what is required. It will make her feel more secure and loved, although your DD will have to put in the effort up-front. Try reading Beyond Toddlerdom: Keeping five to twelve year olds on the rails by Christopher Green. Practical common sense by a highly experienced paediatrician.

Oh I used to have a cassette with Enid Blyton stories on when my daughter was little.
"Sally the screamer" about a little girl who was kidnapped by an old lady so she could scream her house down for her. Tantamount to child abuse now, I would think.

As a child, one Christmas I received an Enid Blyton book. It had several stories within it's pages, all if them with a message. One was about a girl who asked for so many presents on her Christmas list and knitted an enormously long stocking to hold them all, that the only things she found on waking up, were vegetables and fruit...right to the toe. 'To greedy Marjory from Father Christmas' was on the tag.
(sorry, I went into memory mode there)
Another story was about two children who never wanted to pack up their toys at bedtime. It became such a struggle that, one night, the parents didn't tell them to tidy away when the clock chimed 8. They played on and on...and on and on. Later, the parents announced that they were going to bed and locked the doors etc and said goodnight.
The fire died down, the creaking of the house settling for the night was frightening, an owl hooted and shadows became scary. Their imaginations ran riot and they argued over their game as they became more tired. Mum came down to 'get a drink' and they asked could they go to bed. Mum acted surprised. 'I thought you weren't tired and were quite grown up', she said.
They looked forward to bedtime after that.

We had the same problem many years ago when our oldest daughter was about six or seven. That's when we decided to 'strike a deal' with her.

Her usual bedtime was 8:30 PM. After endless nights of tears and tantrums, we were at wits end until we thought of changing 'bedtime' to 'curfew'. She would now be allowed to stay up past her bedtime for as many hours as she pleased. Going forward she would not be told to go bed at all. If by 8:30 PM she wasn't sleepy, she could do whatever she wanted provided it was a quiet activity; read a book, listen to a taped story, play with her dolls/toys, draw pictures etc. (there were no hand held screened devices in the 70s). The only caveat was that she stay in her room and work quietly.

By framing that alternative as a 'win' she took the deal. Not surprisingly, after some unstructured quiet time, she would invariably end up falling asleep around 9 anyway. It didn't take long before she was putting herself to bed on her own initiative. Peace and tranquility were thus restored.

Oh dear! I see both sides of this story very clearly. My early life (up to 14) or so was plagued by my parents' firm conviction that all children needed 10 to 12 hours sleep every night. I didn't. But as my parents packed me of to bed at 7.30 and got cross if I got out of bed again, I soon learnt to stay in my bed, or move very quietly indeed if I got out of it. Until I was 7 I had a night light and an electric heater that gave off light so I could read, lying on my tummy in front of said heater, with one ear sharply cocked to hear the sitting-room door open. The signal for getting back into bed pronto.

As an adult I have had to see things from my parents' point of view, although I have never been convinced that children do need 10 or 12 hours sleep every night.

If a child is just being naughty then rules must be made and adhered to, if she is scared of the monsters under the bed, or is having nightmares then these have to be dealt with.

You ask why she is not tired? Either because she is not using her brain enough during the day, or because she is not getting enough exercise. What does she do at the after school club?
How intelligent is she? An intelligent six year old is probably bored at school as she understood the teacher the first time something was explained, and is sitting there waiting for the others to catch up.

If you and the child's mother are convinced this is not just naughtiness, some of it is, after all, why on earth are you putting up with name-calling? That sort of thing should, in my opinion, earn her an even earlier bedtime for a week or so. I think her mum should speak to the school and club and ask what is going on there, and how the child is behaving there. She may be being bullied, after all and is desperately trying to assert herself at home in the only way she knows.