Ann and Geoffrey Hailey - compassion is NOT a crime

Of course BlueBelle, and I respect your opinion, just as I expect you to respect my choice and that of others.

But you wrote 'I don’t agree with killing our loved ones' - and my point is that NO one here is talking about 'killing loved ones' - at all, never ever, in any way, shape or form. I totally and absolutely 'I don’t agree with killing our loved ones' myself, 100%.

I don't think anyone has ever been prosecuted for the offence of 'assisting dying', have they?
I believe that the system that operates now, flawed though it is, protects the vulnerable yet ultimately allows people to assist their close family who choose to die.
But the trauma accompanying it is dreadful.
I don't know the answer.

You know that people openly travel from the Uk to foreign clinics to medically end their lives pretty much every week, yet their families arent prosecuted!

Why? Because alarm is raised when someone other than the deceased appears to have led the planning and the payment/organisation. This would still (rightly) raise concerns if such clinics were legally operating IN the UK.

Whilst so many are openly going with no legal consequences for their loved one, there must be coersion concerns when family members face legal consequences, as it happens so rarely despite the frequency of UK patients at these clinics.

The current Law still stands, even after the campaign by Debbie Purdy to protect her husband:

Section 2 of the Suicide Act 1961, as originally enacted, provided that it was an offence to "aid, abet, counsel or procure the suicide of another" and that a person who committed this offence was liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding fourteen years.[3] That section has amended by the Coroners and Justice Act 2009.

Approximately 46 Britons a year go abroad to Dignitas in Switzerland for an assisted suicide.[4] No family member has been convicted of helping them although some have been charged and have had to wait before hearing the charges have been dropped.[5] Because of the inconsistencies between the law and prosecution Debbie Purdy launched a case to clarify whether or not her husband would risk being prosecuted if he helped her travel to a Dignitas clinic in Switzerland to die.[6] Purdy's case ended on 30 August 2009 with the decision that the Director of Public Prosecutions had to clarify how the Suicide Act 1961 is to be enforced in England and Wales

People should NOT have to travel to Switzerland, but should be able to die in the comfort of their home, surrounded by loved ones. At the moment, people have to decide to travel before the time has come, in fear that they will be too weak or disabled to travel. And the cost is huge- meaning that only people with the means to pay Dignitas fees and travel, accomodation, funeral and or repatriation, etc. Ann says it worked out at about £12.000.

My membership of EXIT is about £30 a year, with all advice, support, interviews, and assistance on the day totally free. I would be able to choose to die in my bed, my favourite room, in the garden if not overlooked- with OH and family if wished, with my favourite music, etc- just as I would choose. How it should be, if this is what YOUR wish, YOUR choice, is.

That section has amended by the Coroners and Justice Act 2009.

What does it now say?
It makes sense that if someone persuades or coerces someone else to undertake suicide, that should be an offence.

Jura, this took place in Canada where it has been legal for a few years now so nobody had any fear of being prosecuted. Bluebell I completely respect your opinion and if we had this system you would be completely protected and at liberty to let nature take its course.

Framilode I too wish we had this system but I can’t see it happening in the foreseeable future.

I hope it never happens,

Jane43- which case. Ann and Geoffrey lived in UK, she still does- and they came to Dignitas in Switzerland.

What do you hope never happens Annieb? I certainly hope you will never be struck by a terrible disease that robs you, bit by bit, of your life and dignity- knowing that you will suffocate for days in the end. I truly do that it does not happen to anyone- but it does- tragically and sadly. And then I'd hope you, I and everone would have choices- be it hospital, home with care, hospice with paliative care - or that other choice- to go in your own home, with all the steps taken to ensure this is what you (as in 'one') have made that clear choice, without coercion. Choice- I will respect yours, please respect Debbie's, Geoffrey's .. and mine.

Jura I respect your right to support assisted dying but I cannot agree

I certainly hope you will never be struck by a terrible disease that robs you, bit by bit, of your life and dignity- knowing that you will suffocate for days in the end.

What a disgraceful and untrue thing to say about the support available for people reaching the end of life.

You've reached an all time low this time, jura

What's wrong with the palliative care we have in this country ?
sadly, Ellan it is often neither palliative nor caring.
It depends who is on duty.

ps I speak from experience and hope that not everywhere in this country is the same.

merlot, I am very sorry if my words offended. This is the words people like Debbie Purdy have used about their particular condition. It is also how Noel Conway describe his fears of dying, due to his particular condition- which causes slow suffocating. It is indeed just awful and terrifying for those affected. Palliative care can be very effective in some cases and most forms of cancer. Our Hospice, Loros in Leicester is absolutely amazing- but with some conditions, it is almost impossible to control. And then, people should have the choice.

Annie, I also respect that you can't agree- but I hope that you'd agree that people who feel differently to you should be allowed to make their own choices.

This thread was not meant as a long discussion on assisted dying (which is absolutely and totally different to euthanasia) - but to encourage those of you who think people in the UK should not have to travel to Switzerland if they do not wish to live to the very bitter end of their disease - but in the comfort of their own home, with their loved ones. And to support Noel Conway and Ann's campaign for a dignified assisted dying choice.

Noel Conway has Motor Neurone Disease:

Conway, who is supported by the campaign group Dignity in Dying, was too unwell to travel to London for the hearing. He is dependent on a ventilator for up to 23 hours a day and only has movement in his right hand, head and neck.

Conway cites his options as to “effectively suffocate” by choosing to remove his ventilator or spend thousands travelling to Switzerland to end his life and have his family risk prosecution.

He said: “This illness has already taken away my ability to breathe independently and I am now almost completely immobile. I know it will also rob me of my life, and I have accepted that. But what I cannot accept are the options I am faced with under the current law.

“I am told that I can choose between letting nature take its course until I am completely unable to move or communicate; hastening my death by removing my ventilator with no guarantee my suffering can be completely relieved; attempting to end my own life at home in potentially painful and traumatic circumstances; or making the arduous and expensive journey to Dignitas and risking prosecution for any loved ones who accompany me.

That sounds like something which has been well thought out and is monitored Jane I am sorry your relative has died but it must have been a great comfort to her to choose how and when she died. My condolences

Anniebach wrote:
"I am against it, what of those whose family want rid of them"

Doctor -assisted dying applies to people who are already dying.

dignityindying.org

I quote:

We do not campaign to legalise assisted dying for people who are not dying, known as assisted suicide.

We do not campaign to change the law to allow doctors to end the lives of their patients, known as euthanasia.

We do not campaign to legalise assisted dying for people who do not have capacity to make the decision for themselves.

Alexa. It sounds as if dignityindying.org are campaigning for what has been in place in Canada since 2016. This link describes the system in British Columbia where our Canada family live.

www.bccancer.bc.ca/health-info/coping-with-cancer/medical-assistance-in-dying

I for one hope they are successful with their campaign.

I think one of the problems in this country is that for years it was referred to as ‘mercy killing’ and the word ‘killing provokes an extreme negative response.

Of course, and people still mix 'assisted dying' with 'euthanasia' - which are two TOTALLY seperate things- and where they can be no mistakes, no slippery slope.

Conway would have had the option of not consenting to ventialtion in the UK. He then would have had all kinds of palliate meds available: mucous dryers so he didnt choke to death on phlegm, sedatives, pain killers. He had a fear that they wouldnt be made available to him. That could be addressed. In the UK. Under the current system

The option he didnt have was lethal injection WITH the ventiator still working.

And this should be his choice, not yours, no theirs. What is the point of putting him through it - he will die anyway- just a few days later - and in the meantime, he lives in fear and terror- as I would in his case.

This is what Noel said:

'"The only option I currently have is to remove my ventilator and effectively suffocate to death under sedation," he said. "To me this is not acceptable."'

anyone who is unable or unwilling to understand or respect his fears, and that it should be his choice - I do wonder about their humanity.

And this should be his choice, not yours, no theirs not their relatives.

Which is the current threshold.

When people travel to dignitas from UK (on average almost one a week does!!) Their family face no consequences if it was the deseased who planned the trip. Even if family are present when they die.

And that is as it should be whether people have to travel, or if such clinics were to open up here.

For legal consequences to be persued, there has to be a concern about coersion.

anyone who is unable or unwilling to understand or respect his fears, and that it should be his choice - I do wonder about their humanity.

There are nuances such as were they his well informed fears, or projected fears from someone else? Was his family regularly expressing fear about WITNESSING a death from ventialor removed, even if the person was comfortable. Etc.

Someone, somewhere along the line raised a flag and said "Im not sure this is all his idea"

You really should be talking to Noel about this - anyone who has closely been following his case would never make this statement- as he has been 100% clear along along, and still is.