Ann and Geoffrey Hailey - compassion is NOT a crime

If there is no evidence of coersion.... it would be no different from any of the others who dont face legal consequences would it?

IMO it is correct, whether digitas type services are available here in the future, or abroad. That a threshold is met that shows no evidence of coersion

How can anyone disagree with that?

When people are coersed, they say it is their choice. In a humane society, others have a duty to raiss concerns if they think there is another driving force behind what is going on.

Only then are families facing legal issues.

Why should it be any other way?

If the gentleman was too unwell to travel to London and is on a ventilator how will he travel to Switzerland?

Exactly ! He does not want to- he want to b able to die at home, in the UK. That is the whole point!

But jura thats not the point of your OP. The OP is about criminal consequences, of which there are none. Unless coersion is suspected.

Thats a different issue. And would STILL be the case if there were dignitas clinics in the UK

Jura changing the law on assisted dying couldn’t be achieved for yesrs

It is the whole point as far as Noel is concerned, and many others in the same situation. All those who made the decision to travel and die far too early, in fear that they would leave it too late to have that choice.

Noel stayed to fight the legal system, with the support of 1000s- and lost. And in the meantime has probably left it too late to travel- having sacrificed himself for others. A wonderful, selfless, courageous man.

Jura wrote:

" and in the meantime, he lives in fear and terror- as I would in his case."

I think there is a tranquilliser drug that can damp down the terror.

Anniebach wrote:
"If the gentleman was too unwell to travel to London and is on a ventilator how will he travel to Switzerland?"

When the UK law permits medically assisted dying there will be no need for anyone to die in Switzerland while they are still well enough to travel.

MERLOT I was so sorry to see that you had read this post .My heart goes out to you at this awful time.

Someone, somewhere along the line raised a flag and said "Im not sure this is all his idea"
notanan2, do you have good reason for saying that this happened in the case of Noel Conway?

I think there is a tranquilliser drug that can damp down the terror.

Fantastic. More medication which may or may not have the desired effect while the man awaits his (very likely miserable) end from a horrible disease.
He is fully compos mentis and wants to call it quits now.
He should be legally able to act on that choice.

I did say it was my opinion only Jura and I m not expecting others to agree
Well, I agree with you Bluebelle.
I feel exactly as you do.

PUBLIC OPINION
The vast majority of the public support a change in the law on assisted dying for terminally ill, mentally competent adults. This includes the general public, people of faith and people with disabilities.

dignityindying.org.uk

We invariably read about people wanting to choose when and where to depart this earth, travel to Switzerland. But as I understand it, other European countries have this option, too. The Netherlands for one. I have thought this would be less expensive and also less far to travel.

So I'm puzzled why Switzerland is apparently the first choice of destination. Does anyone know?

I heard Lord Sumption QC giving the Reith Lecture, and I believe he took a question on assisted dying from this lady (Ann Whaley) who had accompanied her husband to Switzerland. I think he gave a very measured reply to this incredibly difficult question. He said we need a law in order to prevent abuse but it has always been the case that this has been criminal and it has always been the case that courageous relatives and friends have helped people to die.........I don't believe there is really a moral obligation to obey the law, and ultimately it is something each person has to decide within his own conscience....... I tend to agree with what he says but am torn because whilst I believe the elderly and vulnerable should be protected, I also believe it is compassionate to give people a choice about their own death when they have a terminal illness or terrible suffering. As often with moral dilemmas, nothing is black and white.

Blinko I think rules different in Netherlands and I believe you have to have an established relationship with the doctor who performs assisted suicide.

Not sure- but I suppose it must be the rules and regs re the Association who would provide support. Dignitas is realtively accessible. BTW Dignitas had a nice flat where people could go and die with their help. But residents' complaints meant that they had to move to an industrial estate, to a concrete block. The inside has been made as welcoming and 'warm' as can be- but it is a shame.

As a member of EXIT, I would be able (and OH too), should I ever wish it, to die in my own home, and even in my garden as it is very private. EXIT is for anyone who is resident in Switzerland, irrespective of nationality. As a long term member, they have told me that, should we ever return to live in UK, as long as we keep a property here, rented or owned and of whatever size- they would agree to assist there.

Many friends and relatives in the UK have asked us if we would be prepared to host them- if ever they were in need - but that would not be possible, unless they became resident for at least 6 months to 1 year.

Fairly recently, you posted that you'd be returning to the UK for good Jura2, or has that thought been banished in light of the event of which you post?

Jura2 jura2

, I’d be interested to hear your views Gabriella, as a retired lawyer.
Not from a personal or moral perspective, but from what difficulties you think could arise in framing the necessary legislation if assisted dying were to be allowed in this country.
What safeguards would be necessary to protect vulnerable people?
How could clinical staff be protected from accusations that they might have manipulated patients?

Lazigirl Thank you for your post and your quote from Lord Sumption.
I’ve now read Ann Whaley’s letter to MPs and members of the House of Lords, referred to in the OP.

This is what she said in her letter:

“I asked Lord Sumption, in light of Parliament’s continuing refusal to legalise assisted dying............ where people like me should turn when we are experiencing the effects of this outdated law.

I found his response very troubling: “I think the law should continue to criminalise assisted suicide… and I think that the law should be broken from time to time.”
What message does that send to loving families who face criminalisation for helping their nearest and dearest to have the deaths that they want?”

I think Ann Whaley has grossly oversimplified and distorted Lord Sumption’s measured and thoughtful response, which you quoted, and which I took to mean that although assisting a suicide in a planned way is illegal, it is acceptable for palliative care staff to use drugs to relive pain and suffering, even if doing so will hasten death.

Janeainsworth wrote:

"I think Ann Whaley has grossly oversimplified and distorted Lord Sumption’s measured and thoughtful response, which you quoted, and which I took to mean that although assisting a suicide in a planned way is illegal, it is acceptable for palliative care staff to use drugs to relive pain and suffering, even if doing so will hasten death."

My living will stipulates that I will get adequate pain relief even if that causes me also to die.

It should not be the responsibility of medics to play God and decide whether or not to comply with the explicit and sane instructions of the patient.

GG54 - I don't think I ever said we would be coming back to UK - only that this is a possibility- and maybe enforced on us if Sterling tanks further. We are at minus 50-60% of income since we arrived 10 years ago- we can tighten belt- but will come a time when this is no longer possible.

OH declared yesterday that he is so disgusted with what is happening in the UK currently - that he just could not ever contemplate going back. And, yes- knowing that, if ever we were struck by a debilitating disease, like Deppie Purdy or Noel Conway - we would have the ultimate choice in our destiny and care- is really really re-assuring. Although I did say earlier, that EXIT have assured us, that as longterm EXIT members (and my mum was a founder member) .. as long as we had our own property here (could be a rented studio) - they would agree to assist, even if not officially resident in CH.