How should medical staff react to this:

And that is your choice Suziewoozie. Aren’t we lucky we all have one.

Some might say it was a classic example of something much more unpleasant, mightn’t they?

Exactly, suziewoozie. Classic example of 'whataboutery'.

So no, everyone shouldn’t have a choice if it’s based on racism

The story on which this thread is based has nothing to do with incompetence and everything to do with racism that some NHS staff face.

Grandmablue

Not really Callistemon. Clear incompetence and negligence by consultants who are protected and represented by BAPIO that when investigated claim racism to cloud and cover their negligence.... everyone MUST have a choice ....

Are some people assuming that some NHS workers may be less well qualified because they were trained overseas? Medical staff who may appear to be foreign nationals, were born in Britain, educated here and trained UK universities. How can people judge their medical expertise by the colour of their skin?

Is that what you mean by 'one of these individuals' *Grandmablue8? Someone you presume wasn't educated in the UK?

btw, a lot of discrimination (eg disability) is not illegal but unlawful. A restaurant, cab driver or whatever cannot be arrested for refusing to allow a disabled person service. The disabled person has to bring the case themselves in the Civil, not Criminal court. It takes a lot of time and you can't get legal aid for it, you have to pay a solicitor. Obviously if someone assaults someone because they're disabled, that's different and it is an arrestable offence.

Sorry Call misunderstanding

I presume you mean objecting to someone you feel may not be competent Grandmablue, not objecting on racial discrimination grounds at all.
That is different altogether.

Jura2 ... like I said, you should read the book first. If one of these individuals was due to operate on someone I loved, I would object. It doesn’t matter what colour you are. If you use racism to avoid high standards, that is illegal.

Callistemon- no-one would be refusing to treat anyone- but not ot pander to their illegal racism.
Exactly, jura!!
It needs to be dealt with better than it is at present.

lemongrove that is just it, a medical professional will always put the patient first.

suziewoozie I said exactly the same as you; I understood your point exactly and in fact added to it so am confused that you feel the need to explain it to me


However, I cannot see a health professional refusing to treat a patient, however obnoxious they are. If the patient refused to see a non-white professional then perhaps they should have to be put back on the waiting list, which, in some areas, could be years.

Last time I was in hospital there was a horrible woman on the ward (not old or senile, just a nasty racist) who was foul to all the black/Asian staff whether cleaners or consultants. She got shouted down by the other patients (white and otherwise). We all cheered when she discharged herself.

It is against the law to discriminate against anyone because of:

age
gender reassignment
being married or in a civil partnership
being pregnant or on maternity leave
disability
race including colour, nationality, ethnic or national origin
religion or belief
sex
sexual orientation

These are called ‘protected characteristics’.

You’re protected from discrimination:

at work
in education
as a consumer
when using public services
when buying or renting property
as a member or guest of a private club or association

You’re legally protected from discrimination by the Equality Act 2010.

No. Racism and dscrimination are against our Laws. So why should it be 'respected'.

Perhaps some of you should read ‘whistle in the wind’ before deciding if others should have choices. It’s an individual decision and MUST be respected. No matter what colour the doctor is.

Good point about Shipman, EllenVannin! Evil people, as well as excellent people, come in all shades.

This is getting so out of hand now and it needs stamping out. Surely there must be someone who can stand firm ??

Who cares who works in the health service ? As long as there are no Shipman's and he was white don't forget !!

No, I agree, they wouldn't, but if the patient refused absolutely to have the treatment if it was not given by a white surgeon and there wasn't one on duty, it would be the patient's responsibility. You cannot treat mentally competent people (whatever you may think of their opinions) against their will, however ill they may be.

I am not being too lenient, or even lenient at all, it’s not up to me what happens to idiots who refuse treatment on racial grounds, but the dilemma of NHS staff, who ( I believe) would always put a patients health first, before said patients stupid beliefs.We can say ‘too bad, no treatment for you’ but they can’t, and I don’t think they would, no matter what they thought privately.

Well. lemongrove, I think you are being too lenient on these racists (and those who don't want a female surgeon are just as bad and law-breaking), and what would you suggest for places where the only surgeons are non-white and/or female?

DH has recently had major surgery and both his consultants and many of the staff were not only not white but not born in the UK. Shock, horror!!! We are extremely grateful to them all, and can't speak too highly of them. Anyone who was stupid enough to refuse treatment from any of them would deserve any consequences of delay, and would exclude themselves from first class treatment. I would have absolutely no sympathy with such idiots and their illegal behaviour.

Call its not discriminating against a patient nor refusing to treat him/ her if you say Mr Non-White will be doing your surgery at 9,30 tomorrow. It’s the patient who is making the choice and discriminating against Mr Non-White if he refuses that. It would be helpful if the point was actually tested in court but I doubt this will happen. What should be dealt with is the undoubted everyday racism as that will send a message. BTW patients can be removed from a GPS list for abusive behaviour which would include racist comments. The GP does not have a duty of care to keep the patient on his/ her list. The CGG have to place the patient with another practice but the patient would have no choice - take it or leave it. Perhaps this could be a way of dealing with the (rare) cases of patient refusal. Refer them to NHS England for placement at another hospital - could be anywhere in the country and of course the patient would have to go back to square one in the system ....

It’s a moot point and probably best left to the NHS to deal with.

Illegality should not be accommodated- or ti would be the start of a terrible slippery slope. Callistemon- no-one would be refusing to treat anyone- but not ot pander to their illegal racism.

But that is your view Jura2 ( and maybe mine) but the NHS would not do that, doctors and surgeons have a duty of care and in my view would (in the end) try and accommodate the patient.It would be a rare case after all.Most people ( even racists) want their operations as soon as possible.