Dying at home from Covid 19

What has been concerning me in general is the importance of getting the message across that people should not worry about ‘bothering the doctor’. We had a thread recently where the OP didn’t realise GP surgeries were fully available for advice and consultations ( albeit in alternative ways). I think we could do with some clear public advice about using the GP and secondly what to do if you felt really ill ( even if not CV related).

annie have you any idea how distasteful many of us will find your last post. Using CV to bang on again about Cotbyn - have you nothing of any relevance to post?

When journalists wrote criticism of Corbyn it was said on this
forum it was all lies

They’re primarily a commercial enterprise. The paper needs stories to sell so that’s what journalists write for.

I had a brief spell on the back desks of a newspaper when I lived in London. I know how it works.

Stories=sales= advertising revenue=profits.

Have you ever read The Shipping News. That passage about storm hits Newfoundland/storm misses Newfoundland is so true!

I trust that you don't believe anything written by any journalist at all then, Eglantine?

Gaunt47 It IS political ,it has been mishandled badly by the Tory government ,surely even their supporters can see that? Or do you have to lose a loved one before you'll see the truth!!

What we have Maizie is the Guardian journalists paraphrase of the Minutes of a meeting. I’d be content if the Guardian had actually published verbatim extracts from those Minutes so we could see what was actually said.

But we can see from Pikachus OP how easily things can be paraphrased or even like the ‘one or two deaths a week” actually deliberately misrepresented.

Emotive phrases are slipped in and quotes that don’t have to be attributed or verified. “said the head of one A and E department.”

It’s sloppyjournalusm seeking fir a story, that then gets rereported by people like Pikachu who doctor it again for there own ends. And before you know it, it’s a fact!

Show me the minutes, not a journalists article. Let’s see what was actually discussed by the people who know what’s going on.

You can’t? I wonder why.

You can? Hooray! Let’s have a proper informed discussion l

Perhaps some of you Gnet experts can explain what appears to these doctors to be unusually high numbers of deaths at home from heart attacks?

Not in anyway an expert but sheer common sense would suggest that isolation, stress, worry, inability to get out and about, a reluctance to call 999 because they have a misguided sense of not wanting to "burden" an already over worked NHS, not recognising how ill they really are until it's too late....all/any of these would be markers for someone with heart problems to have a heart attack don't you think *MaisieD"?

I'm not sure where Pikachau is laying the blame or scorn. There's nothing to that effect in their OP. The article is presented for people to draw their own conclusions.

Perhaps some of you Gnet experts can explain what appears to these doctors to be unusually high numbers of deaths at home from heart attacks?

From the Guardian article:

The A&E chiefs’ minutes said that on the weekend of 4-5 April the number of 999 calls in which someone had had a cardiac arrest rose from 55 a day in normal times to 140.

The minutes also reveal acute concern among senior medics that seriously ill patients are not going to A&E or dialling 999 because they are afraid or do not wish to be a burden.

“People don’t want to go near hospital,” the document said. “As a result salvageable conditions are not being treated.”

A&E doctors believe that many of the extra deaths from cardiac arrest are due to Covid-19 which, by making it difficult for someone to breathe, puts serious strain on their heart. “Of these 85 extra cardiac arrest deaths a day in London, they must be mainly Covid,” said the head of one A&E department.

“We are going to more people that we are pronouncing dead. We’d average one a week normally, but I had days a week ago when I was doing three or four a day,” said one London ambulance service (LAS) paramedic.

Eglantine says:

Even The Guardian says the deaths were from cardiac arrest and can only postulate “potentianally” related to Covid 19.

As you can see from the extracts I've posted, the Guardian is reporting what the A & E doctors were saying; not putting their own spin on it.

Eg also says:

It doesn’t say people are afraid to go to hospital or to burden the NHS. A journalist muses that this might be the reason.

No, the minutes of the meeting (see above) indicate that it is the A& E doctors who are thinking this.

I think I'll go with the A & E doctors' interpretation of the unusual figures they are dealing with rather than the apologists for the tory government. who don't appear to have read the article

Even the Guardian article doesn't lay blame anywhere; it simply says that people who have pre existing serious health conditions such as heart problems etc, who would normally go to hospital for treatment, are showing a reluctance to attend hospital during the current COVID situation. And some of them are dying at home. But the article states, quite clearly, that the NHS is urging everyone who has pre existing health conditions to continue to call for assistance because they will be treated at hospital.

And I still can't see anything in that article to get alarmed or het up about or to find anything or anywhere to lay any blame or scorn at. Honestly Pikachu I think you've got it completely a**e about face on this.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Is anyone else getting fed up with the way the media and hence some posters on this forum are politicising the dreadful consequences of this virus?
The assertions we are reading are simply making the situation worse for the worried and vulnerable, and add nothing helpful to the situation we all find ourselves trying to deal with.

You're the rude one ! Never FFS me !

What goes around comes around, eh,Pikachu ?

Or rude.

And let’s not get personal dear!

Incidentally saying ‘seems’ to be is not stating something as fact! Duh!

OK forget it.

Deaths at home are not up. Cardiac arrests and dead on arrival are not up and even if they were it’s nothing to do with coronavirus.. A&E chiefs are not bothered. The Guardian, that awful left wing paper is scaremongering and all is well.

Fair enough.

?

Eglantine not much sometimes, I think.

It doesn’t say people are afraid to go to hospital or to burden the NHS. A journalist muses that this might be the reason.

And then you insist it’s an absolute fact.

Dear Lord, what is in some people’s heads.

Erm... I think death in the community means that someone in the community has died. Just like the people in the link you've provided. But like everyone else, I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here Pikachu. Some people get sick. Some of those people will have underlying health conditions that make them especially vulnerable. Some of those people, for one reason or another, decide not to call the emergency services for assistance. They die.

Who's door are you trying to lay the blame for this at? And why?

Ambulance crews are reporting attending many more deaths in the home than usual.

You haven’t even read your own article Pikachu.

Even The Guardian says the deaths were from cardiac arrest and can only postulate “potentianally” related to Covid 19.