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Vaccines - should they be mandatory?

(117 Posts)
DaisyL Tue 23-Mar-21 11:11:14

At the moment no vaccine in the UK is mandatory - we are all advised to have our children vaccinated but it is not compulsory. I've had my first dose of the Covid 19 one and ab out to have the second and think it is a really good idea that everyone has it, but am IU the only one who feels slightly uneasy about trying to make it compulsory?

M0nica Tue 23-Mar-21 11:42:56

No, it should not be made compulsory, but I think it is quite acceptable to make it compulsory for some roles, such as those in contact with those in medical or social care.

Quite a lot of careers have physical and other qualifications that have to be met before you can enter them. Both DH and DS at one point or another considered careers in the armed services, but discovered that their eye sight did not meet the required standards. I consider that making the requirement that someone has to have the COVID vaccine, or any other appropriate vaccine before working with vulnerable people, is no different.

Peasblossom Tue 23-Mar-21 11:48:27

When I first started teaching there were health requirements. We had to have chest X-rays to check for TB and have been vaccinated against that some diseases.

This may just have been an Inner London requirement at the time.

If we wanted to work in those schools we had to meet the requirements.

Smileless2012 Tue 23-Mar-21 11:50:34

I don't think they should be mandatory but anyone who decides not have it should be aware that by not doing so, limitations may be placed on their work and social lives.

GagaJo Tue 23-Mar-21 11:57:55

I had to do a LOT of medical tests to be able to get a US green card. Ironic really. Going from the UK with a good (at the time) public health service, to the US with expensive and often unattainable health care. I would have thought it would be more likely to be a US citizen with poor health than a Brit.

suziewoozie Tue 23-Mar-21 12:04:41

My problem is with making them mandatory for those in employment already. That’s a different issue and legally more problematic. However, as this issue will tale a while to be legislated on, employers can continue to work with those individuals who are still unvaccinated in the hope of persuading them to change their minds.

GrannyGravy13 Tue 23-Mar-21 12:15:17

I can see why health care workers should have to be vaccinated, but it doesn’t sit well with me.

Whitewavemark2 Tue 23-Mar-21 12:20:04

GrannyGravy13

I can see why health care workers should have to be vaccinated, but it doesn’t sit well with me.

A true libertarian gg13 🙂.

suziewoozie Tue 23-Mar-21 12:35:14

Whitewavemark2

GrannyGravy13

I can see why health care workers should have to be vaccinated, but it doesn’t sit well with me.

A true libertarian gg13 🙂.

Which is why imo she is a real asset on GN 😀

suziewoozie Tue 23-Mar-21 12:38:31

I don’t want to live in a society where a low paid worker is forced out of work because she doesn’t want the vaccine ( no matter how irrational that may be) and then wouldn’t even be able to claim UC because she’s made herself voluntarily unemployed.

Blondiescot Tue 23-Mar-21 12:43:59

I would have reservations about making it compulsory for everyone, to be honest. If an employer wishes to state that it is compulsory for new employees to have been vaccinated, that's one thing, but I'm not sure how that could be applied retrospectively. As has been stated by other posters, there are many roles which already have very specific requirements when it comes to health, and people know this when they apply for these roles.

GrannyGravy13 Tue 23-Mar-21 12:46:21

suziewoozie

I don’t want to live in a society where a low paid worker is forced out of work because she doesn’t want the vaccine ( no matter how irrational that may be) and then wouldn’t even be able to claim UC because she’s made herself voluntarily unemployed.

That’s a scenario which may arise. Care homes and care at home agencies struggle to find staff as it is.

GrannyGravy13 Tue 23-Mar-21 12:47:59

Whitewavemark2

GrannyGravy13

I can see why health care workers should have to be vaccinated, but it doesn’t sit well with me.

A true libertarian gg13 🙂.

Mock away, but the current government is eroding our civil liberties Bill by Bill, something that as a Conservative I find abhorrent.

suziewoozie Tue 23-Mar-21 12:53:37

I hope you didn’t think I was mocking GG I respect anyone who has a thought through rational position on issues underpinned by sound philosophical foundation rather than the knee jerk response just based on the colour of your football scarf.

Casdon Tue 23-Mar-21 12:54:01

Provided enough notice is given that the law will change, and that it is for very clearly specified frontline health and social care roles where staff who are unvaccinated are putting the lives of their patients/clients at risk I think it is the right thing to do. Support to help those staff who do not want the vaccine should be offered to help them find alternative non frontline roles.

suziewoozie Tue 23-Mar-21 12:54:48

Casdon

Provided enough notice is given that the law will change, and that it is for very clearly specified frontline health and social care roles where staff who are unvaccinated are putting the lives of their patients/clients at risk I think it is the right thing to do. Support to help those staff who do not want the vaccine should be offered to help them find alternative non frontline roles.

Yes - this.

GrannyGravy13 Tue 23-Mar-21 12:56:31

suziewoozie

I hope you didn’t think I was mocking GG I respect anyone who has a thought through rational position on issues underpinned by sound philosophical foundation rather than the knee jerk response just based on the colour of your football scarf.

Not you suziewoozie

Heraandboys123 Tue 23-Mar-21 12:56:36

No to mandatory vaccines without end of the trial analysis in 2023. Read much qualified opinion, esp from a Professor Mike Yeadon who suggests this new vaccine is actually termed "gene therapy" - not like the vaccines we had as children. Yeadon feels only the at risk groups should be vaccinated at this point. Our immune systems will have taken a bash via lockdown so he ventures that we'll see a lot of illness by Christmas as the viruses mutate and the gene therapy kicks in to prevent the initial Covid 19 developing - but what of the variants? Will it mean booster shots? Will we be in another lockdown because the jabs taken now will not have any impact on the variants? Too many unanswered questions for me. Peer reviewed Professor Yeadon has a proven track record whereas Vallance's credentials are not up to scratch in many scientists eyes. Then we have the issue of those in government having connections with vaccine development in multinational corporations. As a libertarian I don't approve of forcing folks to take shots because the science ( now) tells us we are not fully protected and will continue to wear masks and socially distance. The iffy science behind this pandemic ( tho I read Social Policy at uni) needs to be discussed, more qualified opinion ( other than SAGE) is needed else we rely on simplistic definitions in tabloids.

GrannyGravy13 Tue 23-Mar-21 12:57:45

Casdon

Provided enough notice is given that the law will change, and that it is for very clearly specified frontline health and social care roles where staff who are unvaccinated are putting the lives of their patients/clients at risk I think it is the right thing to do. Support to help those staff who do not want the vaccine should be offered to help them find alternative non frontline roles.

In an ideal world other positions should be found for them, unfortunately I am not convinced this will happen or is even possible.

Mollygo Tue 23-Mar-21 13:19:19

Mandatory instead of choice sounds quite threatening and like GG13 above, I can’t see the possibility of alternative jobs ever being offered to those already in employment.
Making it a criterion for being able to apply for a job is different. E.g. Agreeing that you would not smoke in or around school was brought in quite a few years ago during teacher interviews.
Today I read an opinion that vaccine passports would be discriminatory for some groups, who are reluctant to have the vaccine.
Should it be mandatory, or will it end up being like masks where you can wear a lanyard instead, but this time saying that you are exempt from needing a vaccine passport just because you are reluctant to have the vaccine?

Katie59 Tue 23-Mar-21 13:40:54

As long as the majority of the population accept vaccines say 90% plus there is little threat to the general population, if they are affected by whatever disease its their own fault.

We can refuse medical help or advice and live with the consequences.

varian Tue 23-Mar-21 13:44:17

Would you be happy to have your elderly parent or vulnerable adult child looked after by a care-worker who refused to be vaccinated?

M0nica Tue 23-Mar-21 14:43:04

On the other hand, suziewoozie I would be even more unhappy if anyone dear to me, died of COVID (or any other innoculateable disease) because a carer, who should have had the relevant vaccination hadn't and brought the disease into the care facility and passed it on.

There will be some who for some reason cannot have the innoculation, and who will have to accept that a career is care is not possible. How the Social Security system deals with this is malleable and someone who has to give up care because the cannot have the jab would qualify for UB and also anyone who can prove incontrovertably that they have a principled objection. the same, but otherwise, if they have a choice and choose not, that is their decision and they must accept the consequences.

So many million of the different jabs have already been administered, that if there really was any problem with them it would be clear by now.

BigBertha1 Tue 23-Mar-21 14:49:21

A few years ago I managed a large District Nursing team through a particularly bad winter of flu and colds with a lot of staff sickness, high numbers of patient admissions to hospital and increased patient workloads. I discussed to possibility of requiring staff to have the flu vaccination as uptake was low according to Occ Health. I was told categorically by HR that it was not possible to do. I suppose a change in the law would be needed to get mandatory vaccination for Covid through and I just cant see it being acceptable in a number of ways to the general public not matter how much we might feel its a good idea.

suziewoozie Tue 23-Mar-21 15:09:07

I don’t think the issue is about my being happy to have a relative looked after by an unvaccinated person.It’s about thinking through the implications of such a draconian change. It’s a huge huge issue. A few months ago the Conservative London Mayoral Candidate proposed mandatory drugs testing in companies over a certain size. We just need to tread carefully especially with a government that is playing fast and lose with civil liberties. I’m really concerned about what they intend to do about judicial reviews and why they haven’t replaced the independent adviser on the ministerial code. We just need to be very careful indeed