Vaccines - should they be mandatory?

JaneJudge

the chap who likes dressing up as a woman

Have I missed something? I know he played a woman in Hairspray- disguised so well that we thought he’d not appeared. I didn’t know he did it in a more regular basis.

Janejudge.
(the chap who likes dressing up as a woman)

Michael Ball has been the star of many west end musicals, one being when dressed as a comedic women in Hairspray.

before casting aspersions on Michael Ball. He is also popular singing with Alfie Boe. cheap laughs are what they are, Cheap.

I don’t know if Michael Ball likes dressing as woman
The only time I’ve seen him dressed as such is when he’s performing in a musical.
I think you maybe getting confused with Grayson Perry.

Galaxy

I am even more lost now. If it's the singer then we cant be taking his guidance on ethical and moral dilemmas for society.

There’s even a debate about how much of a singer he is anyway ?

I can't stop laughing can you imagine turning up at the vaccine centre and Michael Ball was one of the volunteers dressed as Edna Turnblad and over on the right we have Jason Donovan as Frank n Furter

We have a Prime Minister who in his spare time likes painting boxes to they look like buses - so maybe this levels things out?

I am even more lost now. If it's the singer then we cant be taking his guidance on ethical and moral dilemmas for society.

the chap who likes dressing up as a woman

Who is Michael Ball?

AsMichael Ball said the other day you have a right to refuse vaccination so long as owners of businesses, etc have the right to ask it of customers and employees.

I have spent the past year visiting a loved one in a care home by standing outside in all weathers trying to communicate through the window. Heartbreaking and gut wrenching in equal measure. But, it was necessary to keep everyone safe.

Despite the govt saying indoor meaningful weekly visits should now be permitted for designated visitors, the care home companies have the final word on how this is managed.

I have a covid test on arrival, wait 30 min for result then I am dressed in full PPE before visit proceeds. But unlike the emotional reunions seen on tv news we are not allowed any physical contact and have to sit 2m apart and a carer supervises the visit.

I can only hope all the staff are vaccinated but some may not be. Care staff are in close contact with residents for 12 hour shifts. Surely they pose more of a risk to residents than vaccinated relatives who are sitting 2m away for 30 mins wearing PPE?

Whiff

Problem is how do we know who had the vaccine or not. So how do you avoid those who haven't had it.

I'm 62 when I was young whopping cough, measles, TB, polio etc where is about so we had the vaccines against them. Meningitis was a killer . We have vaccines against them. But like all vaccines they didn't know the long term effects of them. But we had them as children and made sure my children had every vaccine going. My children have made sure my grandchildren have had all the vaccines even paying for chicken pox one.

Suziewoozie have you had Covid or family who have. Think you would soon change your mind if you did.

Trouble is people have made it political and it's a health issue. The simple choice is do you your family want to have Covid. No vaccine for anything is 100% but I would rather have the vaccine and limit my chances of getting any disease .

Change my mind about what? Again I think you’re missing the point. And I don’t base my decisions about what’s right or wrong in terms of personal experiences alone. The world is far bigger and more complex than the little bit I inhabit.

Problem is how do we know who had the vaccine or not. So how do you avoid those who haven't had it.

I'm 62 when I was young whopping cough, measles, TB, polio etc where is about so we had the vaccines against them. Meningitis was a killer . We have vaccines against them. But like all vaccines they didn't know the long term effects of them. But we had them as children and made sure my children had every vaccine going. My children have made sure my grandchildren have had all the vaccines even paying for chicken pox one.

Suziewoozie have you had Covid or family who have. Think you would soon change your mind if you did.

Trouble is people have made it political and it's a health issue. The simple choice is do you your family want to have Covid. No vaccine for anything is 100% but I would rather have the vaccine and limit my chances of getting any disease .

Whiff, I know this is picky, but small pox has been eliminated from the world except for a very small quantity, kept in several very high security labs. This is why children no longer have small pox jabs.

We all have the choice whether we have the vaccination or not and the choice to avoid those who don't and protect vulnerable people from them.

Whiff the issue is nothing to do with the wonders of he vaccine or how lucky we are to have such good provision of it in the UK. It’s about serious issues about the power of the state, the balancing of competing rights in a democratic society. It’s about treading carefully with those rights and reflecting carefully before we trample over them. It’s about how we tackle vaccine hesitancy - with quiet words or the iron fist.

But also it’s about respecting what the vaccine isn’t and it’s limitations. It isn’t 100% effective, we still don’t know how long immunity from it lasts and variants aren’t going to go away.

As Covid seems to be here to stay. I can see a time when mortgage providers , life insurance companies and the like won't consider lending or letting people take out policies without having the Covid vaccine. No matter what their age, status or job.

How many lives have been lost ,how many families have been devastated by Covid. Having a vaccine is no hardship. I think it should be compulsory not a popular view I know.

But how would you feel if someone who refused the vaccine for no reason other than they don't want it. Was a carrier or had Covid and past it on to you and your family . And you or members of your family became seriously ill or die.

How many of the people who refuse it but are willing to pay to have vaccines for holidays in far flung places that still have diseases like small pox etc.

I had said this before in some form on other threads. My daughter and family have had Covid luckily they are recovered from it. But my brother and sister in law who already had health problems 8 weeks after the isolation period was over are still not to how they where before . They had been shielding and don't know how they caught it.

The vaccine doesn't hurt ok there are side effects. I felt rough for 3 days after. But I always felt rough after the flu jab.

We are lucky in this country we don't have to save up before we can afford medicines or medical treatment.

Have the vaccine and and we can all get on with our lives.

Know I will get flack for this post but how many feel the way I do but won't say anything because they don't want to be seen in a bad light.

GrannyRose15

MayBee70

What do you mean by professional careers? You mean nursing home staff etc?

I didn't say careers - I said carers and what I meant was anyone who is looking after another person professionally. It was supposed to be a short hand term for nurses, nursing auxiliaries, care home staff, and those who provide care in the community.

Many of them had not had the vaccine even when it has been offered.

That will teach me not to try too hard to be succinct.

It was a typo.....

GrannyRose15

suziewoozie

I think I largely agree with you. Unfortunately calm consideration of facts is not something very many people are going in for at the moment.

I’ve been thinking recently that there’s something the opposite of vaccine hesitancy and maybe as dangerous in its own way.

suziewoozie

I think I largely agree with you. Unfortunately calm consideration of facts is not something very many people are going in for at the moment.

MayBee70

What do you mean by professional careers? You mean nursing home staff etc?

I didn't say careers - I said carers and what I meant was anyone who is looking after another person professionally. It was supposed to be a short hand term for nurses, nursing auxiliaries, care home staff, and those who provide care in the community.

Many of them had not had the vaccine even when it has been offered.

That will teach me not to try too hard to be succinct.

grannyrebel7

I think I'm missing something here. If all care home residents for example have been vaccinated, why do unvaccinated staff pose a risk to them?

Because no vaccine is 100% effective. AZ just reported 76% this morning (which is pretty good for a vaccine), so on average if there are 100 residents vaccinated 24 will still be vulnerable.

Of course the same argument goes for the staff - but this is the whole point of herd immunity, you can't eliminate the virus with the vaccine but if you reduce the number of possible hosts sufficiently it has nowhere to go.

Yes to both posts Luckygirl and Lovetopaint037.
Making things mandatory will produce a lot of protests about infringement of rights, as happened with masks. Your suggestions give people a choice.

Lovetopaint037

Yes as Michael Ball said the other night on tv. It shouldn’t be compulsory so long as it is the right of owners of restaurants, theatres.cruise ships etc to insist that you have to be vaccinated in order to use their services.

And yes to this too.

Luckygirl

I do not think that they should be compulsory as such; but that there should be things you cannot do if you choose not to have one. For example work in the NHS, or in a care home, or go abroad.

Yes, absolutely.

Yes as Michael Ball said the other night on tv. It shouldn’t be compulsory so long as it is the right of owners of restaurants, theatres.cruise ships etc to insist that you have to be vaccinated in order to use their services.