Vaccines - should they be mandatory?

Sorry Hetty crossed post.

Some people in care homes can't be vaccinated due to health problems and have to rely on others being vaccinated.

grannyrebel7, some care home residents will be advised, by doctors, not to have the vaccine. Also, no vaccine is ever 100% effective - so there still remains a risk for some.

I think vaccination should be compulsory for those in close contact with patients - so for doctors, nurses, dentists and care workers etc.

It then becomes a requirement for the job. If anyone feels strongly that they really don't want the vaccine, they can choose a job that's not people-facing - so there's still a choice.

Still, I think a lot of people will change their minds later, if/when they find that they can't go on holiday where they choose!

Smileless2012

I don't think they should be mandatory but anyone who decides not have it should be aware that by not doing so, limitations may be placed on their work and social lives.

Common sense in a nutshell.

I think I'm missing something here. If all care home residents for example have been vaccinated, why do unvaccinated staff pose a risk to them?

suziewoozie

I don’t want to live in a society where a low paid worker is forced out of work because she doesn’t want the vaccine ( no matter how irrational that may be) and then wouldn’t even be able to claim UC because she’s made herself voluntarily unemployed.

I agree with not making it compulsory, but we also need to consider conflicting rights carefully.

If my DD refuses to send my grandson to school because some of the staff are not vaccinated, will this still be illegal and how will his education be provided?

And the issue of home-schooling would just be red herring here, even if it were feasible I could easily come up with another example where a fulfilling a legal obligation would put you in danger of contact with non-vaccinated people.

We briefly lived in Norway when my DD was at school - they wouldn't take her without a documented TB injection.

The real purpose of vaccination is to protect others - and the problem is that, until recently - and I mean in the last few weeks, it's always been presented to the public as way of protecting yourself.

The rights of those being cared for needs to be taken into consideration too as well as the carers. They have the right to be cared for by someone who has taken every precaution to keep them safe including being vaccinated. The carers have a duty of care towards them.

And yet, didn’t someone say recently that all children starting school in France have to be immunised or no school allowed?

Sorry, 15.43.

I agree totally with Flicker's post 15.45 23.03.21.

Someone I know was not at all keen to have the vaccination but the thought of possibly restricted employment prospects and difficulties accessing some venues in the future has worried him.

He is now going to be vaccinated. Others will think similarly.

I am very sorry for anyone who has a medical condition which means they cannot have the vaccination. That is different from just not wanting it.

No, it would be impossible to make it compulsory for every one to be vaccinated, but it must be understood that if a vaccine is refused there may be consequences, as in it not being safe to do certain jobs without a vaccination.

The employee has the right to refuse, but so does the employer.

There is a choice.

varian

Would you be happy to have your elderly parent or vulnerable adult child looked after by a care-worker who refused to be vaccinated?

There will certainly be some employees that are obliged to have vaccine to do the job. Having said that I’m sure many nurses, care workers and doctors have not had all the routine vaccinations.

I my opinion, it is a choice.
But, if you choose not to have it, then you need to accept that some jobs may be unavailable to you, some travel inaccessible, some events not open to you.
It is taking some personal responsibility isn't it?
I would never force anyone into being vaccinated, but theybthen have to accept the consequences.

No I dont think it should be.

No no no no no.
It is definitely not a good idea - we have to be left some personal freedoms.

I feel very strongly that nothing should be compulsory. That said, I’m not against private businesses choosing to require a vaccination

I don’t think the issue is about my being happy to have a relative looked after by an unvaccinated person.It’s about thinking through the implications of such a draconian change. It’s a huge huge issue. A few months ago the Conservative London Mayoral Candidate proposed mandatory drugs testing in companies over a certain size. We just need to tread carefully especially with a government that is playing fast and lose with civil liberties. I’m really concerned about what they intend to do about judicial reviews and why they haven’t replaced the independent adviser on the ministerial code. We just need to be very careful indeed

A few years ago I managed a large District Nursing team through a particularly bad winter of flu and colds with a lot of staff sickness, high numbers of patient admissions to hospital and increased patient workloads. I discussed to possibility of requiring staff to have the flu vaccination as uptake was low according to Occ Health. I was told categorically by HR that it was not possible to do. I suppose a change in the law would be needed to get mandatory vaccination for Covid through and I just cant see it being acceptable in a number of ways to the general public not matter how much we might feel its a good idea.

On the other hand, suziewoozie I would be even more unhappy if anyone dear to me, died of COVID (or any other innoculateable disease) because a carer, who should have had the relevant vaccination hadn't and brought the disease into the care facility and passed it on.

There will be some who for some reason cannot have the innoculation, and who will have to accept that a career is care is not possible. How the Social Security system deals with this is malleable and someone who has to give up care because the cannot have the jab would qualify for UB and also anyone who can prove incontrovertably that they have a principled objection. the same, but otherwise, if they have a choice and choose not, that is their decision and they must accept the consequences.

So many million of the different jabs have already been administered, that if there really was any problem with them it would be clear by now.

Would you be happy to have your elderly parent or vulnerable adult child looked after by a care-worker who refused to be vaccinated?

As long as the majority of the population accept vaccines say 90% plus there is little threat to the general population, if they are affected by whatever disease its their own fault.

We can refuse medical help or advice and live with the consequences.

Mandatory instead of choice sounds quite threatening and like GG13 above, I can’t see the possibility of alternative jobs ever being offered to those already in employment.
Making it a criterion for being able to apply for a job is different. E.g. Agreeing that you would not smoke in or around school was brought in quite a few years ago during teacher interviews.
Today I read an opinion that vaccine passports would be discriminatory for some groups, who are reluctant to have the vaccine.
Should it be mandatory, or will it end up being like masks where you can wear a lanyard instead, but this time saying that you are exempt from needing a vaccine passport just because you are reluctant to have the vaccine?

Casdon

Provided enough notice is given that the law will change, and that it is for very clearly specified frontline health and social care roles where staff who are unvaccinated are putting the lives of their patients/clients at risk I think it is the right thing to do. Support to help those staff who do not want the vaccine should be offered to help them find alternative non frontline roles.

In an ideal world other positions should be found for them, unfortunately I am not convinced this will happen or is even possible.

No to mandatory vaccines without end of the trial analysis in 2023. Read much qualified opinion, esp from a Professor Mike Yeadon who suggests this new vaccine is actually termed "gene therapy" - not like the vaccines we had as children. Yeadon feels only the at risk groups should be vaccinated at this point. Our immune systems will have taken a bash via lockdown so he ventures that we'll see a lot of illness by Christmas as the viruses mutate and the gene therapy kicks in to prevent the initial Covid 19 developing - but what of the variants? Will it mean booster shots? Will we be in another lockdown because the jabs taken now will not have any impact on the variants? Too many unanswered questions for me. Peer reviewed Professor Yeadon has a proven track record whereas Vallance's credentials are not up to scratch in many scientists eyes. Then we have the issue of those in government having connections with vaccine development in multinational corporations. As a libertarian I don't approve of forcing folks to take shots because the science ( now) tells us we are not fully protected and will continue to wear masks and socially distance. The iffy science behind this pandemic ( tho I read Social Policy at uni) needs to be discussed, more qualified opinion ( other than SAGE) is needed else we rely on simplistic definitions in tabloids.