COVID-19 etiquette and good manners after 19 July 2021

Good morning ma'am

Thank you for your posts.

No need to apologise for supplying technical information.

Part of the culture of this country is to ridicule anything technical and have some television presenters bragging about not being any good at mathematics.

Things are complicated. By being interested in the technicalities is how things get done.

It is often the people who as children were regarded as geeks, nerds and swots who got the better jobs, the better pensions.

Viruses are not living organisms, but biological programs encoded in ribonucleic acid (RNA) or deoxyribonucleic acid (DNA).

They come to life when they enter a living cell and hijack the protein production systems. Viruses use the cell's machinery to copy their DNA or RNA (in the case of SARS-CoV2, it's RNA) and to produce the proteins they need to make copies of themselves.

The viral proteins produced in an infected cell undergo the 'glycosylation' and then pass through the quality control steps, which involves 'trimming' by an enzyme called 'MANEA'.

"Trimming is a crucial quality control step and when it does not occur, client proteins are marked for degradation. MANEA represents a key target for broad spectrum drug development against encapsulated viruses, as inhibitors will trigger destruction of their proteins."

www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/11/201106113919.htm

Sorry the above is technical, but I hope it explains that a virus like coronavirus is not a living organism without a host/receptor. People are more familiar with bacteria, which duplicate on their own, but the kind of manic cleansing people do to eradicate bacteria is inappropriate against coronavirus, which will just degrade anyway without a receptor (in this case ACE2).

I shall continue to wear a mask in Shops and crowded indoor places. I would feel uncomfortable if I saw someone unmasked.
In the days of smoking and non smoking areas for cinemas, airplanes and restaurants, sitting in a non smoking section did not prevent you inhaling and smelling other people’s cigarette smoke. So as far as I am concerned it is common decency and good manners to wear a mask in an indoor crowded space such as a shop.

Elderlyperson

For vital load: www.webmd.com/lung/news/20201105/dose-of-coronavirus-timing-matters-for-infection#1

For death and decay of the virus; I will be honest, I found this one a bit difficult to get good links for because not a lot has been published since the early months of the pandemic. I thinkmy information here came from a much more recent R4 programme that pointed out that lab experiments, used larger viral samples than is found on packaging and in the early days of covid when the exact methods of the transfer of the COVID virus were not fully understand, any article on anything to do with COVID would always recommend, no matter what, to wipe and quarantine everything. wash your hands, wipe surfaces etc etc.

www.webmd.com/lung/how-long-covid-19-lives-on-surfaces This one admits that it is not known how lab test results transfer to the real world. Lab tests are carried out in controlled conditions that enable viruses to flourish, which is not what happens in normal life.

www.newscientist.com/lastword/mg24632821-400-how-long-can-viruses-survive-outside-the-body/

Those who continue to wear masks in some circumstances are in good company Chewbacca, are they assuming the moral high ground, or using an evidence based approach to the wearing of masks?

I don't mind why they're doing it casdon, it doesn't bother me either way. Just as I didn't get fussed when others were having visitors in their houses or meeting up in groups during lockdown; I know that I cannot change what others do; I can only change what I do. I see no point in getting het up about something that I personally cannot change.

Summerlove

varian

You wear a seat belt to minimise the injury you might suffer in a car crash.

You watch your weight because that is good for your health.

You wear a mask in the supermarket or public transport to protect the health of others.

Why not?

Key words here
your healgh vs *health of others*

A better analogy might have been everybody driving on the same side of the road and keeping to speed limits.

By the way, I expect your delivery drivers appreciate your efforts, but they're not really necessary (apart from savings on bulk items). I still do all my grocery shopping online and do three orders a month. I just order what I want/need. I don't let the drivers into the house, but have big bags by the door. The drivers help me transfer everything into the bags and I take them to my kitchen, where I put them in cupboards or the fridge/freezer. I always wash my hands after I've finished the process, but I did that anyway. Virus particles will be dead within hours and I don't even think about them. I've always washed fresh fruit and veg before I eat it.

The delivery drivers are a cheery lot and none of them has ever complained about my buying single items.

varian

You wear a seat belt to minimise the injury you might suffer in a car crash.

You watch your weight because that is good for your health.

You wear a mask in the supermarket or public transport to protect the health of others.

Why not?

Key words here
your healgh vs health of others

ElderlyPerson Here's some information about the spread of Covid-19:

www.webmd.com/lung/coronavirus-transmission-overview#1

The two most common ways the virus is spread is by water droplets from a person's nose or mouth and aerosols, which are smaller and lighter droplets which linger in the air for a couple of hours. Think about how cigarette smoke rises and stays around until it eventually drifts away.

Unlike bacteria, viruses are not living organisms. They won't continue to multiply, unless there's a host. Viruses are very fragile and the coating which keeps them together can be destroyed with ordinary soap, washing up liquid or alcohol. Hence the advice to keep washing hands.

When coronavirus enters the body, it latches on to ACE2 receptors, which we all have in our bodies. Once it's "hijacked" the ACE2 receptors, it attacks organs in the body. Children have fewer ACE2 receptors and there's a theory that's why they tend to be less severely affected.

If coronavirus fails to "latch on", it becomes inactive.

Coronavirus isn't like cyanide. One particle won't do much harm. There's something called viral load. I don't think anybody knows what the critical amount of viral load is, but the more particles in your body, the more likely you will be infected. That's why walking past an infected person in the street probably won't cause you any harm, but spending time with an infected person in an enclosed space, such as a pub, classroom or even your sitting room, is much more dangerous.

The sensible thing is to avoid enclosed spaces and, if you do need to use one, to keep as far away from others as possible and use a barrier (mask) to ensure you don't breathe over them and minimise the risk of inhaling others' breath.

Those who continue to wear masks in some circumstances are in good company Chewbacca, are they assuming the moral high ground, or using an evidence based approach to the wearing of masks?
www.walesonline.co.uk/news/uk-news/whitty-vallance-explain-three-times-20978585

There was a time when those of us in total isolation were regarded as helping to keep the NHS going by not needing to use a hospital bed to be treated for COVID-19.

That seems to have been a time that has gone with the wind.

By the way, I have been able to optimise the process of the delivery driver placing my shopping in boxes and me getting the shopping in by buying many items in the quantity of a display box and asking in the note to the picker for the box if possible please so as to help at the doorstep.

So I order as I need, Alpro soya drink 8 at a time, Alpro 4-pack soya desserts 6 at a time, Alpro 3-pack shakes 5 at a time. I usually get it all in the boxes and that probably helps the pickers too as they can just put a boxful in the tray.

When I have an excess in stock I miss that item out the next week. So, for example, the Alpro soya drink is one one-litre box each day, so every week I accumulate an extra box, then when I have enough to miss a week I do so, unless it is on special offer in which case I leave it until after the special offer ends..

I buy toilet rolls when on special offer, and as the special offer comes round from time to time I can often do what I call an arch and not need to buy any between special offers. It all helps on a pension.

has anyone had a pcr test done recently? my son has been waiting 3 days now for his result and we are self isolating. 119 have just said they are inundated so canot even access the system. It's pissing me off a bit tbh. If they are going to reopen shouldn't this all be working a bit faster (one off school, one off work fwiw)

I am getting irritated by the way those who have decided to continue to wear a mask all the time seem to think they occupy some moral high ground. You do not. You have merely made your own personal choice, which is what this change is all about.

This x 1000.

You wear a seat belt to minimise the injury you might suffer in a car crash.
You watch your weight because that is good for your health.
You wear a mask in the supermarket or public transport to protect the health of others.
Why not?

Because I don't want to but, I have no objections to you continuing to wear yours for evermore if you to. I won't judge you for it or think that your irresponsible or make snarky remarks about your choice, just as I'm sure you won't judge others for feeling differently. There! A compromise has been made.

M0nica

HurdyGurdy There is plenty of evidence to show that the probability of transfer by is so low it is as good as nil.

Tests where large quantities of virus were smeared on packets showed how the virus could survive, several days, on some surfaces, but laboratory smears contained far more virus than was ever likely to be transferred by a hand, plus you need the concentration of virus contained from inhaling droplets to be present and then inhaled and this is highly improbable to happen from any virus on a package.

You do not get COVID from one viral unit, nor, I suspect 10 or 100, but you need to inhale 1,000s of viral units for your immune system to be overwhelmed. Also viral particles age and die and the presence of particles does not mean that they are capable of giving you a disease, after a few hours senescence sets in and the viral particles effectively become the living dead, not the deadly living.

Like many things transfers are theoretically possible, but practically very unlikely.

Like you I never saw any need to do sto quarantine shopping or deliveries. I did during the early months of lockdown have a big box by the doors for deliveries. I was more concerned about delivery drivers, breathing the virus over me than getting it from the parcel they handed me.

> There is plenty of evidence to show that the probability of transfer by is so low it is as good as nil.

epsilon is not equal to zero

> You do not get COVID from one viral unit, nor, I suspect 10 or 100, but you need to inhale 1,000s of viral units for your immune system to be overwhelmed.

That is interesting. All through the pandemic I have wondered about whether it is just a tiny quantity like cyanide or the way even the smell of nuts can make some people ill.

Do you have a link to any information on this please?

> Also viral particles age and die and the presence of particles does not mean that they are capable of giving you a disease, after a few hours senescence sets in and the viral particles effectively become the living dead, not the deadly living.

I had not known of that before. The message seemed to be that if someone gets some in them then they can get the disease.

Do you have any links for that please?

You wear a seat belt to minimise the injury you might suffer in a car crash.

You watch your weight because that is good for your health.

You wear a mask in the supermarket or public transport to protect the health of others.

Why not?

Prevent what? Should I also not step outside in case I have an accident, a fall, motor accident, byicycle accident, What about the risk of other diseases? flu, respiratory complaint (not COVID).

Where is the cut off point for risk? 1 in 10,000, 100,000, 1,000,000. Life is full of risk and no doubt something I stand in risk of will one day kill me.

Most people in this country are overweight and this makes them especially prone to being severely ill with COVID. How many of those wearing masks can say they are within the approved BMI. take plenty of exercise, eat a mediterranean diet and do not drink heavily. How many are actively trying to meet those standards. Doing that will protect you from COVID far more effectively than whether you wear a mask or not.

If you live in an area where the incidence of covid infection is low, and you have been double jabbed, then there is a low probability that you will have the infection and pass it on. Even so why not do everything you can to prevent that?

Varian you are assuming that not wearing a mask will endanger others. It is because the possibility of that is so low that we are now being told that masks are not necessary.

It is the same reason as the reason the twice vaccinated will not need to self isolate any more.

I am getting irritated by the way those who have decided to continue to wear a mask all the time, seem to think they occupy some moral high ground. You do not. You have merely made your own personal choice, which is what this change is all about

I am among those who will not wear a mask, the damn thing drives me to drink and I have to choose between seeing where I am going or wearing a mask, but like others making the same choice I will wear one if requested and use my judgment to decide where else it would be necessary. Were I ever to get a bus I would wear one. Thankfully, because I get travel sick, I am unlikely to ever get a bus.

When I do my weekly supermarket shop in a huge almost empty cavernous supermarket I will not wear a mask. I am unlikely to ever get near enough to anyone else to be either a threat or a victim.

And this is the point. Some of us live lives where the chances of picking up the disease have always been lower than in other places. town versus small village, in contact with school children and not being in contact with children. family members working from home or not and so on. This is why the decisions on masks are being left to each individual to make the decision based on their own personal circumstances.

The government is now encouraging "personal responsibilty"

Today I was in the queue outside my dentist's practice, waiting for my first checkup in two years. My dentist does not allow queuing inside the building.

I got there about five minutes before my appointment but there was a queue as they were running late.

Like all the others in the queue I was wearing a mask. A passerby, not wearing a mask, who obviously knew the person in front of me engaged her in conversation, standing less than 1m away. She said she was glad that we were not having to wear these masks any more as she didn't like them.

She seemed to have no idea that her choice not to wear a mask could ever affect anyone else, We need to get that message home to everyone.

varian

Unfortunately there seem to be many who either do not understand that wearing a mask is to protect others or do not care.

That’s been true all the way through the pandemic. Now they will be able to say they have been told they don’t have to wear one. Funny how being told one thing is unacceptable but the other isn’t.

Unfortunately there seem to be many who either do not understand that wearing a mask is to protect others or do not care.

I have been told by my GP practice to wear my mask whenever I go out, I have quite severe respiratory problems. I will continue to do so although I have had the two jabs.
I would also appreciate distance from other people however, as I am not getting that now, I can't see that changing. A lot of people are oblivious to distancing themselves from others, and have been all through this pandemic.

ElderlyPerson

I have no intention of going out unless I have to go to the dentist or hospital.

There was a discussion on Sky News on Friday and it appears that the COVID-19 vaccines do not work properly on people who have blood cancer. People are campaigning for the government to send a letter about this to everybody registered as having blood cancer or being tested for blood cancer so that they don't get a false sense of security.

I am wondering if social distance delivery options will remain or whether some couriers will require a physical signature again or will the social distance options remain in place.

For example,

www.dpd.co.uk/content/how-can-we-help/parcel-delivery-during-covid-19.jsp

It all looks rather scary if one does not want to open the door while the driver is there, but if one clicks on the + signs there is a way round it, namely put a signed note on the front door authorising leaving it without the door being opened and the driver leaves the parcel and photographs both the note and the parcel.

I did the signed note option for a DPD delivery recently and it worked fine. I added a bit asking the driver to knock after delivering and he did that too. I also dated the note after the signature. I got the parcel in using gloves and I quarantined the parcel for a week, just in case, and indeed I wore gloves when I gently dropped my purchase out of its plastic packaging onto a cushion, and the handwashing too at each stage. I know, I know, possibly overdoing it but as I have been doing that sort of thing since March 2020 and have as far as I know not caught it thus far, nor indeed flu, how and when does one get off the precautions rollercoaster if one does not need to do so?

What you describe sounds like standard practice for couriers Elderly Person (leaving on the doorstep, photographing, card through the letterbox)
Especially if a parcel arrives before I am showered and dressed, I have often called out of the bedroom window and never have any problem with a delivery being left.

However If I left Rosie’s frozen fresh dog food (delivered every month by lovely Mr P Singh from DPD ) to “quarantine” for a week , a) it would have thawed and gone off and b) she’d be starving and would probably be starting on my second arm. ?

Merylstreep why wear a mask for an injection if for nothing else? If the government removes legal need for mask wearing medical staff may also decide not to wear a mask.

ETA: at least for another few months