COVID-19 etiquette and good manners after 19 July 2021

There was a time when those of us in total isolation were regarded as helping to keep the NHS going by not needing to use a hospital bed to be treated for COVID-19.

That seems to have been a time that has gone with the wind.

By the way, I have been able to optimise the process of the delivery driver placing my shopping in boxes and me getting the shopping in by buying many items in the quantity of a display box and asking in the note to the picker for the box if possible please so as to help at the doorstep.

So I order as I need, Alpro soya drink 8 at a time, Alpro 4-pack soya desserts 6 at a time, Alpro 3-pack shakes 5 at a time. I usually get it all in the boxes and that probably helps the pickers too as they can just put a boxful in the tray.

When I have an excess in stock I miss that item out the next week. So, for example, the Alpro soya drink is one one-litre box each day, so every week I accumulate an extra box, then when I have enough to miss a week I do so, unless it is on special offer in which case I leave it until after the special offer ends..

I buy toilet rolls when on special offer, and as the special offer comes round from time to time I can often do what I call an arch and not need to buy any between special offers. It all helps on a pension.

Those who continue to wear masks in some circumstances are in good company Chewbacca, are they assuming the moral high ground, or using an evidence based approach to the wearing of masks?
www.walesonline.co.uk/news/uk-news/whitty-vallance-explain-three-times-20978585

ElderlyPerson Here's some information about the spread of Covid-19:

www.webmd.com/lung/coronavirus-transmission-overview#1

The two most common ways the virus is spread is by water droplets from a person's nose or mouth and aerosols, which are smaller and lighter droplets which linger in the air for a couple of hours. Think about how cigarette smoke rises and stays around until it eventually drifts away.

Unlike bacteria, viruses are not living organisms. They won't continue to multiply, unless there's a host. Viruses are very fragile and the coating which keeps them together can be destroyed with ordinary soap, washing up liquid or alcohol. Hence the advice to keep washing hands.

When coronavirus enters the body, it latches on to ACE2 receptors, which we all have in our bodies. Once it's "hijacked" the ACE2 receptors, it attacks organs in the body. Children have fewer ACE2 receptors and there's a theory that's why they tend to be less severely affected.

If coronavirus fails to "latch on", it becomes inactive.

Coronavirus isn't like cyanide. One particle won't do much harm. There's something called viral load. I don't think anybody knows what the critical amount of viral load is, but the more particles in your body, the more likely you will be infected. That's why walking past an infected person in the street probably won't cause you any harm, but spending time with an infected person in an enclosed space, such as a pub, classroom or even your sitting room, is much more dangerous.

The sensible thing is to avoid enclosed spaces and, if you do need to use one, to keep as far away from others as possible and use a barrier (mask) to ensure you don't breathe over them and minimise the risk of inhaling others' breath.

varian

You wear a seat belt to minimise the injury you might suffer in a car crash.

You watch your weight because that is good for your health.

You wear a mask in the supermarket or public transport to protect the health of others.

Why not?

Key words here
your healgh vs health of others

By the way, I expect your delivery drivers appreciate your efforts, but they're not really necessary (apart from savings on bulk items). I still do all my grocery shopping online and do three orders a month. I just order what I want/need. I don't let the drivers into the house, but have big bags by the door. The drivers help me transfer everything into the bags and I take them to my kitchen, where I put them in cupboards or the fridge/freezer. I always wash my hands after I've finished the process, but I did that anyway. Virus particles will be dead within hours and I don't even think about them. I've always washed fresh fruit and veg before I eat it.

The delivery drivers are a cheery lot and none of them has ever complained about my buying single items.

Summerlove

varian

You wear a seat belt to minimise the injury you might suffer in a car crash.

You watch your weight because that is good for your health.

You wear a mask in the supermarket or public transport to protect the health of others.

Why not?

Key words here
your healgh vs *health of others*

A better analogy might have been everybody driving on the same side of the road and keeping to speed limits.

Those who continue to wear masks in some circumstances are in good company Chewbacca, are they assuming the moral high ground, or using an evidence based approach to the wearing of masks?

I don't mind why they're doing it casdon, it doesn't bother me either way. Just as I didn't get fussed when others were having visitors in their houses or meeting up in groups during lockdown; I know that I cannot change what others do; I can only change what I do. I see no point in getting het up about something that I personally cannot change.

Elderlyperson

For vital load: www.webmd.com/lung/news/20201105/dose-of-coronavirus-timing-matters-for-infection#1

For death and decay of the virus; I will be honest, I found this one a bit difficult to get good links for because not a lot has been published since the early months of the pandemic. I thinkmy information here came from a much more recent R4 programme that pointed out that lab experiments, used larger viral samples than is found on packaging and in the early days of covid when the exact methods of the transfer of the COVID virus were not fully understand, any article on anything to do with COVID would always recommend, no matter what, to wipe and quarantine everything. wash your hands, wipe surfaces etc etc.

www.webmd.com/lung/how-long-covid-19-lives-on-surfaces This one admits that it is not known how lab test results transfer to the real world. Lab tests are carried out in controlled conditions that enable viruses to flourish, which is not what happens in normal life.

www.newscientist.com/lastword/mg24632821-400-how-long-can-viruses-survive-outside-the-body/

I shall continue to wear a mask in Shops and crowded indoor places. I would feel uncomfortable if I saw someone unmasked.
In the days of smoking and non smoking areas for cinemas, airplanes and restaurants, sitting in a non smoking section did not prevent you inhaling and smelling other people’s cigarette smoke. So as far as I am concerned it is common decency and good manners to wear a mask in an indoor crowded space such as a shop.

Viruses are not living organisms, but biological programs encoded in ribonucleic acid (RNA) or deoxyribonucleic acid (DNA).

They come to life when they enter a living cell and hijack the protein production systems. Viruses use the cell's machinery to copy their DNA or RNA (in the case of SARS-CoV2, it's RNA) and to produce the proteins they need to make copies of themselves.

The viral proteins produced in an infected cell undergo the 'glycosylation' and then pass through the quality control steps, which involves 'trimming' by an enzyme called 'MANEA'.

"Trimming is a crucial quality control step and when it does not occur, client proteins are marked for degradation. MANEA represents a key target for broad spectrum drug development against encapsulated viruses, as inhibitors will trigger destruction of their proteins."

www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/11/201106113919.htm

Sorry the above is technical, but I hope it explains that a virus like coronavirus is not a living organism without a host/receptor. People are more familiar with bacteria, which duplicate on their own, but the kind of manic cleansing people do to eradicate bacteria is inappropriate against coronavirus, which will just degrade anyway without a receptor (in this case ACE2).

Good morning ma'am

Thank you for your posts.

No need to apologise for supplying technical information.

Part of the culture of this country is to ridicule anything technical and have some television presenters bragging about not being any good at mathematics.

Things are complicated. By being interested in the technicalities is how things get done.

It is often the people who as children were regarded as geeks, nerds and swots who got the better jobs, the better pensions.

Shops are not ncessarily crowded places. Many shops are virtually empty a lot of the time, especially if you are an early morning shopper. One morning a security guard commented I was the 20th customer of the day in a large cavernous supermarket. I barely saw another customer, let alone had a chance to infect them, or for them to infect me.

Not just England ditching face masks apparently. The Cannes Film Festival was attended by mask-less attendees last night. Looked like business as normal.

We are blithely talking about post-19 July but chickens, eggs, hatching etc come to mind.
However, from today’s DT
Sajid Javid, the Health Secretary, announced yesterday that plans to allow Britons who have received both doses of the vaccine to take an optional PCR test if they come into close contact with a confirmed coronavirus case, instead of automatically isolating for 10 days, will not be introduced for five and a half weeks.
The delay comes despite Boris Johnson, the Prime Minister, confirming on Monday that “all legal Covid regulations are to end on July 19. “ (So they won’t)
The development deals a blow to the hospitality and arts sectors, with warnings that venues and performances face being shut down when a single member of staff or crew tests positive for coronavirus, just as they should be embracing reopening.
Oh and as if “by the way
There are also concerns about staff shortages in the NHS, as a hospital was forced to cancel all non-urgent care because a large number of staff were forced to self-isolate

Added to which yesterday’s death total at 37 is way up on previous weeks.
Make of this what you will, but I think common sense will (still) dictate certainly what I do - and I hope others.

I’m afraid it’s a balance isn’t it? We can decide what to do, but we’re mostly retired and able to choose our behaviour. However if too many staff are unavailable in the NHS, then this will impact treatments, possibly our own, if we’re waiting for treatment or need to be hospitalised for any reason. Wearing a mask isn’t the issue here, it’s Track and Trace, and if millions of people are self isolating because they walked past someone in a pub who then tested positive, then our services will not be available as they should be. I’m not making a judgment on this, I’ll leave you all to do that, but can the country allow millions of well people to isolate for ten days and keep our services running.

As for me, I assess the probability/risk, and try to make an informed choice. I’ll wear a mask where it seems prudent to do so, I’ll socially distance where it seems prudent to do so, and I’ll try to get on with my life. I’ll go to restaurants, the cinema, on holiday, behaving responsibly when I do.

Added to which yesterday’s death total at 37 is way up on previous weeks.

You just know a statement like that is going to attract my comment.

Yesterday's reported deaths were 37; the day before's was 9. A more realistic measure is the rate by date of death, not date reported. Yesterday's figures aren't final yet because it takes a few days for everything to come through the system. But the number on the 4th was 12.

Daily average in July, 15. Average since the start of June, 12.

Beware of inflammatory statistics. Numbers are rising, but not exponentially....

Well said Alegrias.
I wonder how many people died of other conditions yesterday.

Beware of inflammatory statistics.

Yes, indeed.

A week is a long time in politics.

I am wondering if there will be a high level resignation as an issue of conscience.

Such a resignation would have a major effect on public opinion and shake government to its core.

maddyone

Well said Alegrias.
I wonder how many people died of other conditions yesterday.

Beware of inflammatory statistics.

Yes, indeed.

Oh well, sorry, not sorry for quoting a figure. I had no intention of being inflammatory but 9 to 37 is IMHO a move in the wrong direction.
Will defer to superior intellects (?) now and shut up as my contributions are clearly unwelcome.,

MawBe

maddyone

Well said Alegrias.
I wonder how many people died of other conditions yesterday.

Beware of inflammatory statistics.

Yes, indeed.

Oh well, sorry, not sorry for quoting a figure. I had no intention of being inflammatory but 9 to 37 is IMHO a move in the wrong direction.
Will defer to superior intellects (?) now and shut up as my contributions are clearly unwelcome.,

I've explained why the change from 9 to 37 isn't as significant as you thought it was. Looking at one day's figures is not helpful. Starting on the 2nd July, we had four straight days where the number fell from 27 to 9. Did we all start celebrating in the streets? No.

BTW maddyone - approx. 1,600.

I've explained why the change from 9 to 37 isn't as significant as you thought it was. Looking at one day's figures is not helpful. Starting on the 2nd July, we had four straight days where the number fell from 27 to 9. Did we all start celebrating in the streets? No
Grateful to you, . I’m sure I’d never have thought of that.
Do you also offer egg sucking classes?
(Actually there was a considerable amount of “celebration” in the media and probably here when the “deaths from Covid “ stats hit zero - despite us knowing it was probably a one off. )

www.gransnet.com/forums/coronavirus/1296580-Zero-deaths?pg=4

For instance

Grateful to you, . I’m sure I’d never have thought of that.

Clearly.

Algeria’s. With respect can I just point out that you’re not a world expert on covid and shouldn’t be so sneering of other peoples lack of scientific knowledge that is, however, often balanced by more common sense.

MayBee70

Algeria’s. With respect can I just point out that you’re not a world expert on covid and shouldn’t be so sneering of other peoples lack of scientific knowledge that is, however, often balanced by more common sense.

Oh no, we all rely on her for the latest up to date information! ?