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COVID-19 etiquette and good manners after 19 July 2021

(187 Posts)
ElderlyPerson Sun 04-Jul-21 12:25:45

news.sky.com/story/covid-19-face-masks-will-be-a-personal-choice-under-much-more-permissive-regime-of-measures-12348408

news.sky.com/story/covid-19-doctors-call-for-targeted-coronavirus-prevention-measures-to-stay-after-19-july-12347670

These two points of view do not seem to gel together!

So, what to do?

Is there needed a general public consensus on COVID-19 etiquette and good manners after 19 July 2021?

For example, if someone chooses to go to a nightclub where there may not be restrictions, that is one thing, it is not necessary for everybody to go to a nightclub.

Yet everybody needs to eat, so it seems to me that people who might behave COVID-19wise in one way in a nightclub might lbe entirely happy to behave in a different way COVID-19wise in a supermarket, out of consideration for other people.

It is like people going round in shorts in a city, but gentlemen wear trousers and ladies wear a skirt if going into a church or a cathedral.

Another example, wearing swimwear. Alright on a beach or at a swimming bath, but people (usually) do not go shopping in Tesco in swimwear. It is just how people behave. It may possibly not be illegal, (I don't actually know), but it is just not done.

Years ago, 1950s, 1960s, some people would go round shops smoking, even in places like cake shops.

Gradually it got that people did not do it.

The government's approach to COVID-19 seems to be heading towards the 1950s widespread attitude to smoking of people having to put up with it because of a so-called 'right to smoke'. Some people even disregarded the NO SMOKING signs in some railway compartments, though many smokers respected that, some grudgingly.

Is the policy that the governmentv seems to be heading for having a 'right to covidise anywhere' akin to a so-called 'right to smoke anywhere except in church'.

However, a week is a long time in politics and so what is announced nearer 19 July 2021 may not be what is being telegraphed by the government at present. But it might be.

So do we need the public to adopt some sort of COVID-19 etiquette and good manners that by courtesy people choose to restrict themselves in ways that go beyond the very lax legal restrictions?

If so, how should that come about? Put out by the British Medical Association?

Maybe the BMA needs to do that if the government is unwilling to do so.

This thread is to enquire how people here feel about there being such a guide to COVID-19 etiquette and good manners after 19 July 2021.

Polly12 Mon 05-Jul-21 16:25:31

Are you happy, ElderlyPerson? If you are and you feel your life is fulfilling, then ignore the rest of what I am going to say.
If you are unhappy, or unfulfilled, if each day fills you with anxiety and stress, if you rarely leave your home or interact with anyone then maybe you could ease up a little on your regime? You might experience happiness and joy through freedom and interaction? (All whilst taking sensible, reasonable precautions)

MawBe Mon 05-Jul-21 16:08:26

I am worried that your precautions are unrealistic ElderlyPerson. Are you perhaps very elderly with immune system issues? Did you take similar precautions eg against flu or Norovirus in the days before Covid as well?

My husband had severe underlying health issues (stroke, open heart surgery, blood disease, liver and kidney failure ) and was immunosuppressed for many years after a transplant on the late 90’s but other than normal reasonable hygiene precautions ( hand washing, avoiding those with infections) , I can honestly say none of the others you describe were ever recommended or would have even occurred to me
I suppose personally I would count as 2/3 on the frailty scale , normal I suspect for one’s mid-70’s and think my guardian Angel must have been looking after me as while I have exercised normal precautions and abided by the regulations, when permitted I have travelled by train, been to the theatre , regularly drive locally and further afield, shop, meet friends and carry on pretty much as normal all things considered.
One has to be sensible but one also has to have a life worth protecting and I am concerned that some people have been so frightened by Covid that the rest of their lives will be spent sheltering indoors.

M0nica Mon 05-Jul-21 14:40:30

Maybee70 she probably caught it from the delivery driver.

MayBee70 Mon 05-Jul-21 13:35:15

Elderly Person. I think you’ve got your life pretty sorted. Well done you. I, too felt very bleak and afraid last March and feel much more optimistic now. I rejoice in quite simple things and have found radio programmes that cheer me up no end: laughter being a very good medicine, especially when it comes to mental health. I look forward to utube web chats and look on some of the people doing them as personal friends: ditto internet chums whose friendships have become very important to me. All animals need to adapt to survive and I like to think that’s what I’m doing. I like to think I’ve developed a thicker skin and if and when I get sniggered at in the future for wearing a mask (assuming I ever embrace public transport and cinemas again) I’ll just brush it off!

MayBee70 Mon 05-Jul-21 13:25:35

Calendargirl

Just as a matter of interest, how many GN’ers are still quarantining their post and shopping, disinfecting it and not putting it away for three days?

I have never done this, and wonder if others are.

I spoke to someone on the beach who told me the only way she could possibly have caught covid was via her supermarket delivery. I’m probably not as thorough as I was with shopping, deliveries etc but I still disinfect things and put gel on my hands when unwrapping things. It’s become second nature to me now.

Mollygo Mon 05-Jul-21 13:16:36

ElderlyPerson well done you! If that makes you feel safer, it’s well worth all the effort you put in.

ElderlyPerson Mon 05-Jul-21 10:29:51

Calendargirl

Just as a matter of interest, how many GN’ers are still quarantining their post and shopping, disinfecting it and not putting it away for three days?

I have never done this, and wonder if others are.

I have not used disinfectant, basically because such things tend to get up my nose and make me feel ill, but I do quarantine the post, the shopping and anything else, including prescription medicines, that arrive here, using disposable gloves to get it into the house after the deliverer has gone and doing the handwashing too. Also after grocery deliveries changing my clothes and quarantining the discarded clothes for a week before washing them before wearing them again.

I am in total lockdown and intend to stay that way unless I need to go to the dentist or hospital.

The fact of the matter is that the government has a COVID-19 threat level number and, as far as I know, it is still at 3.

I am in my seventies and have a physical frailty score of around 3 or 4, so not too bad, but I must not lift anything more than about three kilogrammes due to a medical situation. But for most things around the house and taking rubbish to the bins and so on I am fine.

On Sunday 15 March 2020 a government minister said on Sky News that the government were thinking of advising people 70 and over to go into voluntary self-isolation as a precaution, but there was no need to do it yet.

I decided to do it from that moment.

I had noticed that Tesco had for a while been offering "leave it in bags on the doorstep" delivery for people with COVID-19 or who were self-isolating in case they had caught it. I was due to get a delivery the next day. So I logged on and changed my delivery notes to request the "leave it in bags on the doorstep" delivery, though pointing this was as a precaution not because I had COVID-19. Tesco did that for me. It has continued and is still the way, though now they do not use the bags but I put boxes out on the doorstep and the delivery driver puts the shopping in the boxes. I label the boxes so that shower gel and food are not in the same box, and so on.

After the delivery driver has gone I get it in a bit at a time using about ten resusable shopping bags of various designs so that a bag used for shower gel is not used for food the next week and so on. Unloading takes around twenty minutes or more but as the driver has gone and I am retired I just do it at a gentle pace. I just accept that this is how I do it these days, just part of life, not upset about it at all.

Everything else is social distance delivery. For example, before the pandemic if a recorded delivery package came I would go to the door and sign for it. Now the postlady knocks the door and stands back, I reply from upstairs and she offers to leave it on the doorstep and sign it herself, I accept and thank her.

This has all happened quite naturally with no fuss. Everybody knows that the pandemic is on and have offered to do it that way.

In March 2020 I genuinely feared that I would not survive beyond July 2020 everything seemed so bad.

So I decided to try not to just worry but to lie on my bed and quite calmly work out what I could do to try to minimise the risk to the extent that I could.

So, wash my hands as the advice said.

So, try not to get them contaminated in the first place either though, so the disposable gloves that I had got from the vet were here, so it seemed sensible to use them.

I learned of the possibility of fomites that remained infectious for 72 hours, so as shopping is weekly, it seemed natural to quarantine for six days before getting the shopping from quarantine.

So as I might get things in contact with clothing or might touch my clothing with potentially contaminated gloves, so changing clothes after a grocery delivery as a routine practice seemed sensible.

I do all of this calmly, not in a panic, just matter of fact routine procedure now. I feel content doing it and safer for doing so. I know that I may be regarded by some people as foolish and overdoing it, but I am still here in July 2021 and as far as I know I have not caught it yet. The threat level is still at 3. So for me, better too much caution than too little.

Yet I appreciate that my situation is not the same situation as the situation of many other people. I am retired and did not go out much anyway and had needed to give up
driving. a few years earlier. I had not been away from the house since mid-2019 when I went to the dentist, supported transport by a driver from the volunteer centre.

Having got into the routine of doing all this and feeling safer because of it, on what basis would I stop doing it?

For me, in my particular circumstances, a threat level of 1, which is that it is not known to be any COVID-19 in the country seems a good test.

If I stopped doing it at present it would save me a bit on gloves, a bit on hot water and washing, a bit of effort and in return I would probably go from being quite calm and relaxed to being anxious and worrying.

So for me, it seems that to continue doing it all is the best option for me.

MerylStreep Mon 05-Jul-21 08:46:34

Calendargirl
I’ve never scrubbed a cabbage or bleached a letter, or used hand sanitizer, I prefer to wash my hands.
The only time I use rubber gloves is cleaning in the house ( of which I do quiet a lot) and in the charity shop where I volunteer. And that’s not because of the virus, it’s because you can come across some very unpleasant ‘stuff’ ?

M0nica Mon 05-Jul-21 08:26:57

Never done it. I follow the science! There is so much research out there to show that there is no danger from picking COVID up by touching anything.

Calendargirl Mon 05-Jul-21 08:20:43

Just as a matter of interest, how many GN’ers are still quarantining their post and shopping, disinfecting it and not putting it away for three days?

I have never done this, and wonder if others are.

BlueBelle Mon 05-Jul-21 08:03:59

I would wear a mask if requested of course or if I had a cold otherwise I like to think the masks can go as soon as possible

I have never done extra washing or cleaning throughout Covid so I have nothing to revert back too I think I m a reasonable clean person and as long as you wash your hands regularly I ve never done any washing of tins groceries post etc etc I always felt that to be over the top

I know two ladies both younger than me who say they re not coming out of their houses for a very long time I think the mental health illness will take over from Covid big time

I intend to forget it now as much as possible and wipe this last year out my head and get on with my last bit of life in my normal mundane way

love0c Mon 05-Jul-21 07:48:35

I am looking forward to not having to wear mine. I like choice. If and when I travel on a plane then I may wear one. When travelling home in February 2020 from the canaries a mask would have been welcome. I was sat next to a drunk who stunk of booze and cigs! he kept breathing in my face! Horrible ha ha.

M0nica Mon 05-Jul-21 07:43:24

If you have had both your jabs, the statistical probability of catching or passing on the disease is very, very low indeed.

My DH is now unable to wear a mask anyway, following surgery over Christmas that has left him with a damaged lung.

I will, of course, wear a mask if someone requests it, but otherwise not.

ElderlyPerson Sun 04-Jul-21 17:09:34

I have no intention of going out unless I have to go to the dentist or hospital.

There was a discussion on Sky News on Friday and it appears that the COVID-19 vaccines do not work properly on people who have blood cancer. People are campaigning for the government to send a letter about this to everybody registered as having blood cancer or being tested for blood cancer so that they don't get a false sense of security.

I am wondering if social distance delivery options will remain or whether some couriers will require a physical signature again or will the social distance options remain in place.

For example,

www.dpd.co.uk/content/how-can-we-help/parcel-delivery-during-covid-19.jsp

It all looks rather scary if one does not want to open the door while the driver is there, but if one clicks on the + signs there is a way round it, namely put a signed note on the front door authorising leaving it without the door being opened and the driver leaves the parcel and photographs both the note and the parcel.

I did the signed note option for a DPD delivery recently and it worked fine. I added a bit asking the driver to knock after delivering and he did that too. I also dated the note after the signature. I got the parcel in using gloves and I quarantined the parcel for a week, just in case, and indeed I wore gloves when I gently dropped my purchase out of its plastic packaging onto a cushion, and the handwashing too at each stage. I know, I know, possibly overdoing it but as I have been doing that sort of thing since March 2020 and have as far as I know not caught it thus far, nor indeed flu, how and when does one get off the precautions rollercoaster if one does not need to do so?

rosie1959 Sun 04-Jul-21 16:25:06

varian Jersey changed their mask rules 14th June
You also do not have to isolate if you have contract with a positive case just test

GillT57 Sun 04-Jul-21 16:01:07

I shall probably continue to wear my mask, as I do now, in busy shops, I don't wear it when walking about outside anyway. hand sanitiser is a good thing and I would like to see that stay in shops, putting your hands where others have put theirs after sneezing or not washing hands after being to the loo has always repulsed me! I just hope that we are all left to do as we see fit, I shall not be remonstrating with anyone not wearing a mask, and hope that the same courtesy is afforded me by the more vociferous anti-maskers.

Ilovecheese Sun 04-Jul-21 16:01:02

That is what I understood varian masks are not for our own protection but to protect others.

varian Sun 04-Jul-21 15:55:21

We will certainly continue to wear masks in shops and in crowded areas even out of doors.

Having been double jabbed, the risk of our catching the virus is low, but it is not zero.

Wearing a mask is no problem for us but could prevent us passing on an infection to others.

Oopsadaisy1 Sun 04-Jul-21 15:49:10

I’ll continue to wear a mask in shops and taxis ( no public transport available locally) we don’t go to restaurants very often and our (almost) local pub has pods under cover so that you can eat away from others, I hope these will stay for a while, especially as they have heating for the Winter, otherwise we will get take aways and eat at home.
Our local market town doesn’t get too busy but if it does then I’ll wear a mask outside as well. I’ve been too ill lately to ignore the risks of someone coughing or sneezing over me, as has happened pre Covid. I’ll carry on hand washing etc. as well.
What others do is entirely up to them.

AGAA4 Sun 04-Jul-21 15:38:44

I will continue to wear a mask in shops and on public transport to guard against any virus. My personal choice but don't expect others to do the same when restrictions are lifted.

DiscoDancer1975 Sun 04-Jul-21 15:34:29

I think rules will just change to advice. We want to be as ‘ normal’ as possible, but by being careful. I understand ‘ being careful’, will be interpreted differently by different people.
It comes down to acceptable risk, and non acceptable risk for us. I can see us being pretty much the same to be honest, with perhaps the odd meal out. Not much different to how we were before.

varian Sun 04-Jul-21 15:27:37

rosie1959

I am in Jersey Channel Isles masks are no longer worn here apart from public transport. Has been easy to make the adjustment as you now look out of place wearing one

When we were in Jersey recently masks were compulsory in shops and in the public areas of hotels and in bars and restaurants except when seated.

Have the rules suddenly changed?

Jaxjacky Sun 04-Jul-21 15:18:33

I doubt if an etiquette guide will be published, however as it’s rumoured to be down to personal choice there will be a range of that. I think it may remain advisable on public transport and in medical establishments.

rosie1959 Sun 04-Jul-21 14:29:26

I am in Jersey Channel Isles masks are no longer worn here apart from public transport. Has been easy to make the adjustment as you now look out of place wearing one

Lin52 Sun 04-Jul-21 14:19:57

Whiff

I will continue to wear a mask on the bus and in shops. Plus keep my distance and of course hand washing.

Before Covid first thing I did when I got home was to wash my hands before even taking my shoes off. You never knew if people washed their hands after going to the loo.

Must admit, I always slip off my shoes, before washing my hands. You never know what you’ve picked up on the soles of those shoes. Mind boggles.