Is Gender Critical the new Pro Life?

My view :

If transmen pass as men and want to use men's facilities, fine.
Men are not at risk from transmen.

Transwomen should use men's facilities and, if challenged, simply say "I'm a transwoman, mate. Be kind."

And, if they like, they can all campaign for separate trans-suitable facilities.

Gagajo

Maybe it's all just another thing that people will eventually get over

Remember when everything was all about political correctness every 30 seconds and people were saying it was just stupid and would cause issues?

Well that one turned out to only offend people who wanted to be mean to other people and didn't want those other people to to be able to say so. Like strangers, their own friends, colleagues and even family.

It highlighted issues, it didn't cause them.

This too shall pass.

The opposite of 'brevity' is not necessarily 'harangue'.

There are many long posts on GN. It's up to every individual whether they read them but it's rude to make dismissive comments about them.

I agree VS. 'Political correctness gone mad!' Which was code for 'I can no longer be offensive about other groups (ethnicity, class etc) in public.'

Gagajo So true and a lot of people learnt the hard way that they could be held accountable for things they say in the public domain that are offensive to others.

People are still free to say what they like but they are not free from consequences from employers, social media platforms or the simple fact that people may just stop listening to them at all and those might be people they care about.

Smileless2012

so how does that prove that there's science that demonstrates that human life forms are born in categories what are neither male or female?

No I didn't miss that one Doodledog. Great posts as ever from your BTW.

Smileless, I'm copying and pasting my own words, so I don't have to write this again.

Some people with XX chromosomes can be born with genitalia that looks like a penis, or labia that look like a scrotum. Some XY people may have external genitalia that appear female.

Some individuals have a range of XX & XY chromosomes throughout their bodies (I know someone like this). How would this individual's 'sex' be determined?

It's found upon testing in athletes at times, that they've more naturally occuring testosterone in their bodies than is 'allowable' by the sporting associations in womens sports. Therefore they're not allowed to complete. This could be any one of us, except we would never know, because we don't have these tests performed on us.

There are many, many variations in humans (and animals) that do not fit into the neat XX/XY binary.

I did not ever say there is a third sex. I said that sex is a continuum. At one end is male and at the other, is female. There are people that are not at one end or the other, but that are somewhere nearer to the middle. It doesn't make them a third sex. It makes them humans with some variation.

Sorry for the lengthy post.

I've always called it a spectrum... Or maybe an umbrella

My understanding is that sex is not about genitals in themselves, but about someone’s role in the reproductive process.

There may be multiple chromosomal permutations, but people produce either eggs or sperm. We are, therefore, either male or female.

Unless there are people who can produce both eggs and sperm, there can only be two sexes.

And no spectrum! How can that work when the gametes are binary?

Doodledog

My understanding is that sex is not about genitals in themselves, but about someone’s role in the reproductive process.

There may be multiple chromosomal permutations, but people produce either eggs or sperm. We are, therefore, either male or female.

Unless there are people who can produce both eggs and sperm, there can only be two sexes.

No one ever said there was a third sex. At no point. What has been said repeatedly is that some people are a mix of both.

It could be that those people are infertile. Is Caster Semenya infertile? I'm not sure. My friend with the mix of chromosomes may be infertile. I don't want to ask. Certainly she has no children.

Yes, a spectrum. I can visualise that VS. I'm quite linear so that is how my imagination works.

For heaven's sake! For the hard of understanding science: THERE IS NO SPECTRUM! Or an "umbrella"! As Doodledog has already patiently tried to explain, gametes are binary, and no matter how much you imagine in your head how it is, science dictates otherwise. It's akin to believing that there are unicorns or tooth fairies but science tells us that this isn't actually true. You can't bend or manipulate scientific facts to what you want them to be just because you're having a hard time understanding it.

Chewbacca

For heaven's sake! For the hard of understanding science: THERE IS NO SPECTRUM! Or an "umbrella"! As Doodledog has already patiently tried to explain, gametes are binary, and no matter how much you imagine in your head how it is, science dictates otherwise. It's akin to believing that there are unicorns or tooth fairies but science tells us that this isn't actually true. You can't bend or manipulate scientific facts to what you want them to be just because you're having a hard time understanding it.

So where does Caster Semenya fit?

And how about my friend with the mix of chromosomes?

How do you categorise them?

Gagajo I liked yours too

We know this because the estimated between 200,000 and 500,000 trans people in the UK exist, as well as the millions globally, because they do not fit at either end.

Non shouty, mutual admiration VS. How civilized.

Someone or some organisation is pushing this trans,gender thing. No one mentioned it a few years ago and I never heard of any girls wanting to be boys when I was teaching.
Stone wall and others are making such a thing of it, protests in Brighton today, people being cancelled etc.
Twitter particularly is spreading it.

I am beginning to understand more and more why there are so many young people identifying as "non-binary".

kircubbin2000

Someone or some organisation is pushing this trans,gender thing. No one mentioned it a few years ago and I never heard of any girls wanting to be boys when I was teaching.
Stone wall and others are making such a thing of it, protests in Brighton today, people being cancelled etc.
Twitter particularly is spreading it.

That is not true Kircubbin2000.

When I did my post grad studies in 2001, there was a BIG field of study into this then. There were websites, articles, journals writing about it.

I think it's become more obvious since gender critical feminists started making a fuss about it. 20 years ago, it was all just part of the queer movement.

There are documented non-binary individuals going back hundreds of years.

kircubbin2000

Someone or some organisation is pushing this trans,gender thing. No one mentioned it a few years ago and I never heard of any girls wanting to be boys when I was teaching.
Stone wall and others are making such a thing of it, protests in Brighton today, people being cancelled etc.
Twitter particularly is spreading it.

Anyone interested should read this history www.umass.edu/stonewall/sites/default/files/Infoforandabout/transpeople/genny_beemyn_transgender_history_in_the_united_states.pdf
The first recorded treatments were much earlier than you expect. And there was a treatment clinic in Germany pre WW2. It was shut down by the Nazis.
People in the past just kept quiet about things.

If they kept quiet about it things would be better. Encouraging young girls who may be autistic that they are really boys?
Many young teenagers are unhappy with their new bodies and girls often get a crush on the pe. mistress but this soon passes .

Kept quiet? Suppressed who they really are? Live lives of secrecy and misery?

The musician Billy Tipton (1914 – 1989) died alone and in pain because he was too scared of getting medical help for fear of the treatment he'd get for being trans gender.

We are in the 21st century. We've travelled to the moon. We should be able to accept that some people don't fit into one or the other sex. It REALLY isn't that big a deal.

I do not believe that all of the 200,000-500,000 trans people in the UK have differences of sexual development.

I think it's become more obvious since gender critical feminists started making a fuss about it.

It's become more obvious since activists started insisting that people should be able to legally self-id their sex, and Stonewall started mis-representing the law by giving training that says it's compulsory to accept everyone's chosen gender identity as being their sex.

But FarNorth, this is all of a piece. Trans acceptance, gender queer, differences of sexual development, non-binary. It's the growth of a movement.

And the gender critical are the backlash. Which is where this thread started.

No one ever said there was a third sex. At no point. What has been said repeatedly is that some people are a mix of both.

They can't be. It. is. not. scientifically. possible.

I agree that people can be on a gender spectrum, with pink and frilly girly girls at one end, and big butch blokes on the other, and most of us crammed into the centre segments which are, to all intents and purposes, non-binary.

There is a sexuality spectrum of sorts, too, with 100% straight people who could never consider being attracted to someone of their own sex at either end, lesbians and gays at the other, bi in the middle, and people at numerous points on the way. I also know that people can move along that spectrum at different points in their lives.

None of that means that sex is fluid, or that there is a spectrum.and however repeatedly it is said it won't be true.