Princess Grace hospital cancelled vital surgery for woman who requested single-sex care

When it's a facsimile clitoris on a male person.

FarNorth

Your 'niece' Fleurpepper is male, regardless of appearance.
If stereotypes were not so well reinforced in most people's minds it would be perfectly fine for people such as your 'niece' to acknowledge being male with no fear.
Unfortunately, current trans ideology is reinforcing those stereotypes even more strongly.

But how would you know? How would that woman in Hospital know? She wouldn't. The point being is that if a transgender 'person' looks like a woman, that is OK, but if you can 'read' her features to have male traits, then it is not? My niece could have gone in, changed her bedpan, washed her all over, helped her put her bra on, and she would have never ever known.

Just as I have said in the past about mixed race children. It only 'matters' to some if they look 'mixed race'- but doesn't if it does not show?

I mean- I don't get it. I have never had any doubt about my sexuality, even if I grew up with boys and was a bit of a tom boy. But female I am, through and through. And I don't 'get it'- about my niece, or my friends. But it does not matter- they are who they have chosen to be, and that is 100% fine with me. They are really nice, generous, people, and would make brilliant nurses. Who cares about the rest?

My niece does not want to acknowledge being male! She grew up with an abusive, alcoholic father, and always sided with her 2 sisters and her mum- and always wanted to be one of them, and not part of that abusive other gender. She is NO threat to any woman.

But again- YOU, and that woman, would never ever know.

LadyHonoriaDedlock

The woman in question was a lawyer. I'm assuming barrister rather than solicitor, in which case she will have spent her pupillage in chambers with men, probably a majority of men. There are all-women chambers but pupillages are so scarce that the would-be barrister has to take what she can get and she would be very lucky to land in one. Even if she's a solicitor she will still have been through a rigorous and male-dominated process.

I think it's likely that she knew what she was doing from the start: setting up a news story to fuel the movement. Twitter is awash with such set-ups as the barricades go up.

The gender-critical lobby is very sweeping in its condemnation. I wonder how Teresa would have reacted to a nurse who had undergone reassignment surgery?

A transwoman nurse is a nurse. That is all anybody needs to know. We quite rightly abolished the term "male nurse" (along with "woman police constable" a long time ago now.

This is exactly what it feels like. Thank you.

You don’t get it Fleurpepper.
You don’t know what that other female would know.
The male knew he was male. In a situation where female support has been requested,
that makes him dishonest. Do you find that acceptable?
Actually, his going into the room at all does more damage to the trans cause than her request.
I have no idea whether he, or TW anywhere mean to cause mental or physical harm, or whether it is just to prove they can override female requests or rights, but those TW without those intentions simply wouldn’t do that because they are honest and they know they aren’t female.

Re your “niece”. I’m sorry about her childhood, she’s not alone in having suffered abuse.
Are you saying that your “niece”, having suffered abuse would deliberately go somewhere where a female had requested female support?

growstuff

Yup

She would just be there, and no-one would know, and no-one would ask. She wouldn't even have considered it- as she is married to man, and lives 100% as a female, and feels totally at ease with this, for her, totally normal situation. She would have seen it as total discrimination if she had been asked not to be there- but honestly, she wouldn't have been asked.

In this case, how did the woman patient know about the person who opened the door? (Who it seems did not go in, did not give any form of care, etc). Some women wear wigs, and too much make up. Some women are big and butch. How did she KNOW?

My friends mother was my nurse- and she could have passed for beign different, wig, painted on eyebrows, too much make up and lipstick, but was definitely female, and a wonderful nurse. HOW did she know?

The Hospital btw, has a responsibility to its staff. If a member of staff is being discriminated upon, due to race, religions, or gender, then HR at the hospital has to protect the staff, and insure non discrimination policiy of the hospital is adhered to.
So they made the right decision, to cancel.

Personal history does not confer a right to determine how others do their jobs.

Exactly. Where do you stop otherwise?

Colour or race?

Religion?

Specific physical traits? Bald? Beard?

VioletSky

Galaxy

Er what I said was most of the gender critical women I know are lesbians.

Do I seriously have to explain a that is what I was saying again?

It

Depends

On

Your

Circles

Absolutely.

Isn’t that what I said.

That your “truth” isn’t the truth.

It’s just your “truth” ie opinion, formed by the circles you mix in.

Not sure what you think you’re arguing here. I agree.

The Hospital btw, has a responsibility to its staff and its patients. If a patient is being discriminated against by being obliged to accept a male when female support has been requested or agreed that is wrong.

And as I have said, if any male, regardless of how they see themselves or how they live, deliberately go where a female has been requested they are dishonest.

This lady did not request female support until after the alleged "man in a wig" incident.

We don't know if the person opening the door was male or female. At the point where that person opened the door, no request for female support had been made. That person may not have been right to open the door, if indeed they did, but they had not contravened the requests of the patient as they were at that time.

but honestly, she wouldn't have been asked.
Honestly is a strange word to use for deceit.

But honestly your niece would have known. That says you, and she think it’s OK to choose which dishonesty is OK and which isn’t.
Not really much more to say about that.

If any of us needed life-saving treatment, would it matter whether the medics were transgender? When I had treatment for breast cancer, my oncologist was male, surgeon was female (quite butch actually), radiologists a mixture of male and female. I didn’t know if any of them were transgender and I didn’t give a flying fig - they saved my life! Please, ask yourself the question, ‘in that situation would it matter’?

I find myself agreeing with volver there if the patient hadn’t made that request until after.

I nevertheless hope that the violation f patient privacy and dignity is thoroughly investigated and I also hope that the pro-trans people on here will acknowledge that it should be.

The debates gone off in some very disturbing ways, with a poster claiming she knows there is only one lesbian here (how?) another who thinks women are nothing more than - well I have to say it- a fuck and others who see a patient as an inert object that medical staff can revolve around without a thought to mental health or emotional need.

All in the name of trans rights?

Keep getting these “I was treated by a male doctor/nurse/ clinician/obstetrician/butch (how offensive!)” excuses. So have I.
But I have never asked for only treatment only by females.

You’re still saying that a female has no right to ask for a female and must accept being palmed off with a male who claims he’s a ‘woman’ which means nothing definite since it’s corruption in 2004.
That’s discrimination of the highest order!
It's still saying that males have the right to choose which “honestly” is OK because it suits them.

Lathyrus

I find myself agreeing with volver there if the patient hadn’t made that request until after.

I nevertheless hope that the violation f patient privacy and dignity is thoroughly investigated and I also hope that the pro-trans people on here will acknowledge that it should be.

The debates gone off in some very disturbing ways, with a poster claiming she knows there is only one lesbian here (how?) another who thinks women are nothing more than - well I have to say it- a fuck and others who see a patient as an inert object that medical staff can revolve around without a thought to mental health or emotional need.

All in the name of trans rights?

No thank you

LizzieDrip

If any of us needed life-saving treatment, would it matter whether the medics were transgender? When I had treatment for breast cancer, my oncologist was male, surgeon was female (quite butch actually), radiologists a mixture of male and female. I didn’t know if any of them were transgender and I didn’t give a flying fig - they saved my life! Please, ask yourself the question, ‘in that situation would it matter’?

Not to you.

But there are cultures and religions to whom it would matter very much, particularly if the operation or care involved intimate procedures.

Who might have to decide to chose death rather than violate their beliefs. Or be ostracised by their family and community by accepting what is believed to be unacceptable.

It’s not a concept that sits easily in the Western psyche I know but it is real to those affected.

Mollygo

*but honestly, she wouldn't have been asked.*
Honestly is a strange word to use for deceit.

But honestly your niece would have known. That says you, and she think it’s OK to choose which dishonesty is OK and which isn’t.
Not really much more to say about that.

Oh dear...

it would have never entered her mind- she does not know she is a man, because she has chosen to be a woman, and has been for 15 years, very happily and succesfully. She would have never seen it as deceit, at all- and neither would anyone at the hsopital. And no-one would have ever known.

VioletSky

Lathyrus

I find myself agreeing with volver there if the patient hadn’t made that request until after.

I nevertheless hope that the violation f patient privacy and dignity is thoroughly investigated and I also hope that the pro-trans people on here will acknowledge that it should be.

The debates gone off in some very disturbing ways, with a poster claiming she knows there is only one lesbian here (how?) another who thinks women are nothing more than - well I have to say it- a fuck and others who see a patient as an inert object that medical staff can revolve around without a thought to mental health or emotional need.

All in the name of trans rights?

No thank you

It’s very regrettable that there are people in the world who will say no to the investigation of potential misconduct in medical staff.

An indication perhaps of how abuse in hospitals goes undetected for so long.

''All in the name of trans right?'

the only person who has flagged this up, very intentionally and with a huge agenda, is the woman patient, not the trans nurse, who was the one discriminated against, it seems.

Fleurpepper

''All in the name of trans right?'

the only person who has flagged this up, very intentionally and with a huge agenda, is the woman patient, not the trans nurse, who was the one discriminated against, it seems.

That’s why I put a question mark.

Why have people gone down these routes when the whole point is that a member of staff, whoever they were, acted improperly, distressed a patient and the incident needs to be investigated.

And yet people have dragged in all other kinds of stuff and one poster at least,doesn’t even agree with that. She said an absolute no to investigation.

Did she demand female doctors?

So is it incidents of this kind shouldn’t be investigated or incidents of this kind shouldn’t be investigated because the member of staff was thought to be trans.

I can’t see why anyone would think this shouldn’t be nvestigated unless they had some other agenda.

Beware women if you look a little different. If you are wearing a wig because of hair loss and have pencilled in your eyebrows. If you have big feet. If you are tall. If you have strong (a bit masculine) features. If you have short hair or have shaved your head. If you have tatts. If you body build or play sports which build muscle.If you have any of these features be careful which door you open in a hospital, because there might be someone behind it who will decide you are a man.