Princess Grace hospital cancelled vital surgery for woman who requested single-sex care

HousePlantQueen

It is stated that the patient was upset because a trans nurse "entered the room' .....how did she know? Not wishing to offended but nursing uniforms are unisex.

We may never know. More importantly, he knew he was a male even if he called himself a ‘woman’.

If a male whether or not involved in her care, went into her room unnecessarily, regardless of what he says he is then we’re back to asking
“Is it OK for men to do what they like regardless of female requests?”
Do male rights transcend female rights?

It’s quite obvious that posters on this thread have already, by supporting his actions, implied that they think it is OK.

That is nothing new.

I'll wait for everyone who says they don't agree with not using people's requested pronouns to chime in and actually call it out

Fleurpepper

I really do believe there is more to this story!

.
What sort of 'more' do you think there might be?

I think the hospital had arranged to meet her request and then things went wrong on the day - caused by a transwoman nurse inserting himself where he shouldn't have been.
The hospital then tried to pretend that nothing went wrong but has had to backtrack on that.

Your turn, fleurpepper.

Mollygrow '“Is it OK for men to do what they like regardless of female requests?”
Do male rights transcend female rights?'

I so wish you could talk to my friends. They have chosen to become women, to be women, because they do not believe this.

Didn’t there used to be a hospital in London entirely staffed by women? It was often used by women from various Arab countries. When I had my breast cancer operation the surgeon was a woman and all the nursing staff and radiologists were women, as was my oncologist. All my other hospital experiences have had both men and women doctors and nurses. My recent colonoscopy was carried out by a young man. As long as they know what they’re doing, etc., etc.

VioletSky

I'll wait for everyone who says they don't agree with not using people's requested pronouns to chime in and actually call it out

Actually this person says she didn't want to use pronouns.

That must make it difficult for her to make sentences.

I have to laugh, or I'd cry.

Oh really fleurpepper we all know plenty of lovely men who would never harm anyone - yet statistics show the huge risk to females in general from males in general.
Or would you say that the UK regime causes biased statistics?

Your lovely transwomen friends may be amongst those harmless men, or they may not.
It doesn't alter the fact that they are males.

Volver, this actually happened to a teacher. A parent went bonkers they were teaching pronouns and demanded they stop.

The parent had obviously never heard of the word before trans people became the latest pinching bag

FarNorth

Fleurpepper

I really do believe there is more to this story!

.
What sort of 'more' do you think there might be?

I think the hospital had arranged to meet her request and then things went wrong on the day - caused by a transwoman nurse inserting himself where he shouldn't have been.
The hospital then tried to pretend that nothing went wrong but has had to backtrack on that.

Your turn, fleurpepper.

So where did anything go wrong?

No male was involved in the woman's care, which is what she requested.

Mollygo

HousePlantQueen

It is stated that the patient was upset because a trans nurse "entered the room' .....how did she know? Not wishing to offended but nursing uniforms are unisex.

We may never know. More importantly, he knew he was a male even if he called himself a ‘woman’.

If a male whether or not involved in her care, went into her room unnecessarily, regardless of what he says he is then we’re back to asking
“Is it OK for men to do what they like regardless of female requests?”
Do male rights transcend female rights?

It’s quite obvious that posters on this thread have already, by supporting his actions, implied that they think it is OK.

That is nothing new.

Yes, I think it was OK and I'm not going to be gaslighted into changing my mind.

Fleurpepper

Mollygrow '“Is it OK for men to do what they like regardless of female requests?”
Do male rights transcend female rights?'

I so wish you could talk to my friends. They have chosen to become women, to be women, because they do not believe this.

If your friends are not among those who want to invade female safe spaces, compete in female games, falsely portray themselves as female when a female has been asked for, then they would probably say the same as I do.
Presumably you’re saying they also stand up for and support females who are faced with those issues?
Are you saying they agree that the male was wrong to go into the patient’s room?

It’s such a shame that those transwomen who don’t wish to do any of the things I mentioned have the image of transwomen tarnished by those who do.
Woman is now a corrupt word, corrupted by males, which is why I use female.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Well overall what I have taken from this is:

The lady in question needs therapy for 2 reasons.

1. It's not healthy to live with a fear that endangers her own life.

2. It is not healthy that her fear means offending and discriminating against an entire demographic

I hope she gets the help she needs and can then lead a full life without hurting herself or others

growstuff

FarNorth

Fleurpepper

I really do believe there is more to this story!

.
What sort of 'more' do you think there might be?

I think the hospital had arranged to meet her request and then things went wrong on the day - caused by a transwoman nurse inserting himself where he shouldn't have been.
The hospital then tried to pretend that nothing went wrong but has had to backtrack on that.

Your turn, fleurpepper.

So where did anything go wrong?

No male was involved in the woman's care, which is what she requested.

Exactly. I believe there is probably more to this story from the patients pov. Reading her Tweet, she is using this to whip up people into more discrimination against trans people.

You have no idea what they go through, day in, day out. The insults, the jibes, the rejections, the mocking and bullying. Well 2 of them because their size, hands and feet in particular, and voice, point to the fact they are trans-women. The other one does not- as you woud never know, as voice and proportion all female- so she just fits in. Is she, according to some of you, less of a 'danger' (!) because of this?

Fleurpepper

Sending hugs to your friends and you because I generally need a hug after one of these threads

Overall what I have taken from this is

An unauthorised member of staff entered a room where a patient was undergoing a procedure connected with her surgery.

The member of staff acted in such a way as to make the patient feel intimidated and nervous about her up coming surgery

The hospital should investigate the actions of the member of staff to see whether entrance into the room as justified for any reason and whether the behaviours noted by any other oarty in the room.

This is basic medical safeguarding.

We now acknowledge that patients need to be treated with dignity. The days of random persons drifting in and out whilst a patient is undergoing procedure are thankfully long gone.

Any behaviour by anyone which violates patient dignity and confidence needs to be thoroughly investigated.

How can anyone argue against that?

Have fun hurtling past obvious points Fleurpepper & others.

Exactly Lathyrus especially in a non-hard-pressed expensive private hospital.

Lathyrus Where have you picked up that she was undergoing a procedure? All that she has written is that she was having a pre-op assessment, which could have been just questioning. Certainly, my own pre-op assessments have not involved any "procedures".

I'm afraid there has been a lot of exaggeration here.

FarNorth

Have fun hurtling past obvious points Fleurpepper & others.

No, try digging a bit deeper. You are the one who is ignoring the actual facts.

VioletSky

Fleurpepper

Sending hugs to your friends and you because I generally need a hug after one of these threads

Oh how lovely, thanks. No worries about me- but yes, it is hard for those friends. Well not the one who does not look trans- no-one ever bullies her.

I have seen and heard what the other two go through, day in, day out. Last time one of them came to visit, I was really worried about here when she got into the train with some nasty looking lads, and I was worried she would be bullied or attacked. She got home safe.

We have acquaintances staying over, and we went to a fair. The woman went to the toilet, where our trans friend happened to be. She came out shouting ans screaming abuse about 'that perv in the toilet' - because she has asked if she was having a nice day, when washing her hands. You have no idea what it is like.

And no, neither of them would want to compete in sport against other women. All three feel it is not right to do so.

Ladyleftfieldlover

Didn’t there used to be a hospital in London entirely staffed by women? It was often used by women from various Arab countries. When I had my breast cancer operation the surgeon was a woman and all the nursing staff and radiologists were women, as was my oncologist. All my other hospital experiences have had both men and women doctors and nurses. My recent colonoscopy was carried out by a young man. As long as they know what they’re doing, etc., etc.

The London Free, I believe.

growstuff

Lathyrus Where have you picked up that she was undergoing a procedure? All that she has written is that she was having a pre-op assessment, which could have been just questioning. Certainly, my own pre-op assessments have not involved any "procedures".

I'm afraid there has been a lot of exaggeration here.

I admit I picked it up from media accounts. It was in a direct quotation of what she said so I took it at face value.

Nevertheless procedure or assessment an unauthorised member of staff did enter the room. F there was a good reason for that then the investigation stops.

But the account is of them entering and then leaving with no action other than making eye contact with the patient.

If that is so I think most people would understand why she found that unnerving. It is not behaviour a hospital would expect from any member of staff.

[quote Fleurpepper]

FarNorth

Post deleted by GNHQ

Fleurpepper re your post at 19:12:35;
your last sentence contravenes The Contempt of Court Act, strict liability rule, and puts MN(GN) in jeopardy also in jeopardy as publisher of prejudicial material.
this is why we must not comment on current cases.

maddyone

I think patients should accept the staff whatever their gender. I would. I would ask to be on a female ward though as I wouldn’t be comfortable in a mixed ward. However if that was all that was available I’d have to put up with it.

When my elderly mother was in her care home, she refused male carers to deal with her intimate care. She was happy with any other type of care from males though. The home didn’t find it a problem. They simply wrote on her notes that she preferred females for intimate care. They believed in honouring the dignity and choices of the residents.

It used to be a given that a women would have a female to attend to intimate care - the idea that an elderly woman now has to request this and it's marked on her notes beggars belief.

Back in the day, male nurses, who were few and far between then, weren't even allowed to enter a female ward!