Non Immunised grandchild

I don’t think you can’t do anything about it.it’s their child and their decision! You put not breast fed! Not everyone wants to breast feed, or indeed can. You say your son and his partner have very different views on this and they don’t understand your point of view, their relationship isn’t great! I’d be standing back not pushing views on young parents. You have given them the facts, and allow them to make up their own minds

Escudo

I am in the UK

There has been diphtheria in our area

I've heard about some cases and yes, that is worrying.

Riverwalk

BlueBelle

If I can just add a positive thought to your concerns
I was vaccinated against NOTHING until I was 20 years old and had the lot to go overseas to a tropical country I had a fairly normal and healthy childhood and I never thought to ask my mum why I had had no vaccinations
I think it’s far more worrying that this poor child has no interactions with others doesn’t get taken out and no one’s allowed to hold her poor poor child hopefully she ll grow up rebellious and run and hug all and sundry
Well as you say you cant change your mind there really seems little point in asking on here I don’t think any of my relatives avoided me as a child
What do you think you will give her surely it’s her parents business as to who she comes into contact with and if they re happy to come to you why wouldn’t you go with that

That's interesting BlueBelle - did you go to normal state schools, primary & senior?

I remember queuing up for vaccinations in primary school and a polio sugar lump; then the BCG Heaf test in senior school.

Presumably your parents made a conscious decision not to vaccinate - it's not a criticism by the way!

There weren't the raft of childhood vaccines available when I was a child, no measles, mumps, rubella, no polio vaccine until I was 12 and the tb vaccine when I was about the same age.

I caught mumps, measles, chickenpox as a young child but apparently had never had rubella. This was discovered just after I had baby No 3 and they insisted I had the vaccine there and then in hospital. I said to them it was like shutting the stable door after the horse had bolted!

DC1 had a bad reaction to the measles vaccine.

When i had a vaccine 60 odd years ago I had a very bad reaction. Whether it was actually a reaction or not the doctors decided that it would be best if I didn't have any more. So i didn't.

Luckily none of my family thought it best not to visit me and we all survived family gatherings.

BlueBelle

If I can just add a positive thought to your concerns
I was vaccinated against NOTHING until I was 20 years old and had the lot to go overseas to a tropical country I had a fairly normal and healthy childhood and I never thought to ask my mum why I had had no vaccinations
I think it’s far more worrying that this poor child has no interactions with others doesn’t get taken out and no one’s allowed to hold her poor poor child hopefully she ll grow up rebellious and run and hug all and sundry
Well as you say you cant change your mind there really seems little point in asking on here I don’t think any of my relatives avoided me as a child
What do you think you will give her surely it’s her parents business as to who she comes into contact with and if they re happy to come to you why wouldn’t you go with that

That's interesting BlueBelle - did you go to normal state schools, primary & senior?

I remember queuing up for vaccinations in primary school and a polio sugar lump; then the BCG Heaf test in senior school.

Presumably your parents made a conscious decision not to vaccinate - it's not a criticism by the way!

Normandygirl- it's not Hetty who might verbally abuse her friend, but other family members whose behaviour Hetty wouldn't be able to control.
I suspect that's partly what worries OP - other members of her family might attack her son and partner for their choices, especially since they have medical/scientific backgrounds and would find it hard to accept what they would see as illogical reasoning.

Sorry, I missed the second post, Escudo so my comment had already been answered. Personally, I think the rest of the family have no right to comment about vaccinations full stop. It is the parents' choice.
I would have preferred that my grandchildren weren't vaccinated for Whooping Cough and explained why they hadn't be done but their parents chose to do so anyway. I accepted that without question. I held off with my 3rd child with MMR until he was older because I wasn't convinced about the combined vaccine but my grandchildren were vaccinated on schedule. Once again, I kept quiet even when one of them was later diagnosed with ASD. Of course I know that logically the vaccination had nothing to do with that but in the early days, I did wonder. I would have never expressed that though.
The damage to your relationship with the parents and child has to enter the equation too. Make sure you consider this before you become entrenched in your views.

Grammaretto

My DS caught measles before he was old enough to be vaccinated. He was very poorly but recovered.
As children, we had all the common illnesses which are now much less common.
There are still viruses and diseases we can't prevent.
I hope you see your DGC and recover your good relationship with your DS and DDiL Escudo

Yes, my youngest DC caught measles before she was old enough to be vaccinated. She was poorly but recovered with no after-effects.
The older DC had been vaccinated but it's inevitable that not all children will be.

So OP, is your concern for the possibility of the baby catching a bug, or for the possibility of your scientific family abusing the mother?

Not breast feeding (although there might have been a valid reason for this) and not vaccinating do seem barmy choices, but they are hers to make and no-one else's business.

Hetty58

I have a friend who didn't get the Covid vaccinations. I told her, back in 2020, not to just pop in - but to text, first, before visiting - as she wasn't to come if my family are here. The same applies now.

It's not concern about her catching Covid (she's had it twice) it's about my family being angry and verbally abusing her - for being so stupid, selfish and uncaring about vulnerable people. They wouldn't hold back, be polite and accepting, they'd make their views quite clear.

I really can't understand your comment. You do know that covid is transmitted just as easily by vaccinated people as unvaccinated people don't you? Nobody should be "verbally abused" for their medical choices.

In the first year if the mother is breast feeding the baby should have all its mothers immunities so maybe that would ease your mind for at least this year.

My mum for reasons unknown disapproved of vaccines. I got serious measles soon after starting school, resulting in me almost dying and being in a dark room for six months, I believe to save my eyesight. I remember the school coming to ask why I wasn’t at school but when they saw me seemed to understand. I survived but after such a scare mum let me have all the vaccines and started a few herself. I hope your family will reach a solution.

I have a friend who didn't get the Covid vaccinations. I told her, back in 2020, not to just pop in - but to text, first, before visiting - as she wasn't to come if my family are here. The same applies now.

It's not concern about her catching Covid (she's had it twice) it's about my family being angry and verbally abusing her - for being so stupid, selfish and uncaring about vulnerable people. They wouldn't hold back, be polite and accepting, they'd make their views quite clear.

My DS caught measles before he was old enough to be vaccinated. He was very poorly but recovered.
As children, we had all the common illnesses which are now much less common.
There are still viruses and diseases we can't prevent.
I hope you see your DGC and recover your good relationship with your DS and DDiL Escudo

I am in the UK

There has been diphtheria in our area

I was thinking you lived in the U.K but looking at your name I’m guessing that’s not the case. It might be a completely different scenario in places where there as still outbreaks of eg diphtheria.

Thank for your thoughts. It’s interesting and provides me with food for thought.

To enlighten you, the baby is 5 months old. Not breast fed. The scientific aspects of my family are involved in medical research, lecturers and a consultant who will all not be able to bite their lip. They asked me if she was vaccinated. We have had three cases of diphtheria less than a couple of miles away. It’s a realistic concern

LOUISA1523 - exactly!

pandapatch

Not sure why having a medical/scientific background means you can't change your mind?
But presumably everyone else is vaccinated and unlikely to pass on any of the illnesses the baby would have been vaccinated against, especially if they are not allowed to hold her.
How old is she?
It seems surprising they want to attend a large gathering if they never take the baby out?

I too don't understand what you mean by ' having a medical bavkground means you can't change your mind '?
I'm a public health nurse....1 of my GD is unvaccinated....her parents choice...I just accept it....not my decision to make....still see her as much as my other 2 GD..

NotSpaghetti

Quokka is correct in that this baby is really only presumably different to vaccinated one-year-olds as regards the diseases vaccinated against by age 1.

For all the usual stuff (and covid) they will be exactly the same as every vaccinated infant!

I don't understand why you are so against this. I would feel let down (like your son) on this one...
It sounds like you will never see this child if that's how you feel and can't get over it.

Obviously common sense says nobody who is ill should be mixing at Christmas, or anytime really, but I'm sure you wouldn't get together if you had flu or a cold would you?

My first baby's first Christmas was when she was days old.

Of course, she hadn't been vaccinated against anything and met all the family for the first time, including older cousins who were school age.

Has everyone else been vaccinated against childhood diseases?
Have you been in contact with any of the diseases listed in Quokka's post?
Is the baby breast-fed? That is supposed to provide immunity.

I can understand concerns about Strep A at the moment, that is of concern, but the baby wouldn't have had a Strep A vaccine as there isn't one.

We have medical/scientific backgrounds so we can’t change our minds
I don't understand, sorry.

Of course, Hetty you are right about not always knowing when we are infectious. I accept this may be a case of not wanting to be "the one" making the one-year-old ill.

Of course, if Escudo was to visit her son's family later she could still be "the one" who is carrying something and passes it on.

I accept that a gathering of a number of people multiplies the risk but all gatherings will go on multiplying risk forevermore. Will Escudo never see this grandchild or will they only not see them if there are others present too? I'm afraid I see no logic to say no to her son and then want to visit alone.

If the infant is not going to have any vaccinations (which sounds likely) then there will never be a family gathering which includes her son and family as"something" might be passed on.

Perhaps the three immunocompromised guests are actually anxious they might catch something from the unvaccinated infant? Just a thought.

Escudo, I think your decision is entirely logical. I would do exactly the same, in that I'd offer to visit, but avoid inviting them to any crowded gatherings.

NotSpaghetti: 'I'm sure you wouldn't get together if you had flu or a cold' - well of course not, if you knew - but we can be infectious with Covid (and other things) with absolutely no symptoms.

A small child can pick up various infections in rapid succession - and go downhill fast. I'd never forgive myself if they were really poorly following an invitation from me - as I'd feel responsible.

Our first baby was born in December and at the time my OH was houseman on rotation at the hospital. In order that he should see her at all, we used to sleep in his room at the doctors' residence and baby was passed around by the doctors in the lounge and the mess ..... they became very attached to her. She was fine.

The parents are those who decide: whether they vaccinate and where they take the baby.

I think they are nuts to not vaccinate, but that is their choice.

It is also their choice as to whether they bring her to the Christmas festivities. It is their responsibility, not anyone else's. If the children around her are all vaccinated then they are unlikely to pass those illnesses on. As to other non-vaccinatable illnesses they are a risk anytime and anywhere.

I tend to agree with you about keeping the baby away from crowds. Not the lack of vaccines particularly but just being around groups of strangers
My DD was 2 weeks old at her first Christmas. We took her to all the gatherings and ceilidhs. I assumed she would have immunity though mother's milk. She was handed around like a parcel.
As a result she had a cold for her first 3 months. Wee lamb