Non Immunised grandchild

Mmm tough one. I share your view about vaccines but presumably they take this child with them in public anyway. You say you cant change your minds but couldn't you bend a little and let them stay but put in some extra precautions to protect the little one?

Unfortunately it’s not that simple. The baby rarely goes out, no one is allowed to hold the baby either. It’s quite worrying as there isn’t an opportunity for the natural immunity to build either. Plus three of us have low immunity. it’s just getting worse the more I write here

One of mine didn’t have any vaccinations till they were nearly 6 years old, they didn’t catch bugs or anything else anymore than my others who were vaccinated from babies.

What are you likely to pass onto them from the following list

diphtheria
tetanus
pertussis (whooping cough)
polio
Haemophilus influenzae type b (Hib)
hepatitis B
rotavirus
meningococcal group B disease (MenB)
These will be given as 2 injections and drops into the mouth.

At 12 weeks, your baby will have immunisations against:

diphtheria
tetanus
pertussis (whooping cough)
polio, Hib
hepatitis B
pneumococcal disease
rotavirus
These will be given as 2 injections and drops into the mouth.

At 16 weeks, your baby will have immunisations against:

diphtheria
tetanus
pertussis (whooping cough) *polio
Hib
hepatitis B
MenB
These will be given as 2 injections.

1.2 Immunisations your baby will have at 1 year of age
Your baby will have immunisations against:

Hib/Meningococcal group C (MenC)
MenB
measles, mumps, rubella (MMR)
pneumococcal disease

If I can just add a positive thought to your concerns
I was vaccinated against NOTHING until I was 20 years old and had the lot to go overseas to a tropical country I had a fairly normal and healthy childhood and I never thought to ask my mum why I had had no vaccinations
I think it’s far more worrying that this poor child has no interactions with others doesn’t get taken out and no one’s allowed to hold her poor poor child hopefully she ll grow up rebellious and run and hug all and sundry
Well as you say you cant change your mind there really seems little point in asking on here I don’t think any of my relatives avoided me as a child
What do you think you will give her surely it’s her parents business as to who she comes into contact with and if they re happy to come to you why wouldn’t you go with that

I'm sorry.

Maybe consider "Baby first Christmas" not important in life scheme? Apart from the noise of extra people, she won't know Christmas from yesterday.

We're not hold and pass baby pass around GP, so there's that. Small consolation, but first Christmas is dull at best.

Our GC and GGC weren't really Christmas oriented until around 3 years.

Any cajoling her parents? Possible estrangement. Not worth it.

I agree with Norah the first Christmas is important to the grandparents but not for the baby. You need to respect the parents in this instance, it's not worth causing a rift over.
I'm sorry you will not have the Christmas you envisaged, at least you will see them at some point over Christmas.

Quoka This child hasn't had any vaccinations. it could pick up all or any of these or none or something else.

Given how controlled and sterilised this child's life seems to be, I would just not risk it. It seems everyone is travelling by public transport and I would be very aware that if the baby was to get anything, even just a mild dose of snuffles, you would undoubtedly be blamed, for insisting they came to you.

When you visit them, wear a mask.

Our first grand child suffered from night terrors from a very young age and my memory of her first Christmas, is of getting no sleep. She would start screaming in her sleep and gradually wake herself up. It was as if she was in a trance, either way, dare I say it was a relief when she went home, though my sympathy for her parents was profound

I am so sorry you are in this position, presumably your son was vaccinated and so were most of the children he grew up with. The problem with this is that they really have no idea how bad the childhood illnesses can be, not necessarily death nowadays but sight or hearing problems it does rely on the majority having the vaccines to protect them. The cases of diphtheria show that like other childhood illnesses these diseases are just waiting for their chance. I wonder why they want to take a risk when there is a solution.

You can only stick to your guns or completely change your mind, I think I might have left the choice to them

How old is the baby?

If it's the first Christmas they wouldn't be fully vaccinated anyway would they?

It doesn't seem like they will back down

My concern is you risk cutting them off from family love and support

I'm pro vax and I understand your worries but aren't you all likely immune from those things?

It's devastating, I had an aunt who said she would pay me not to vaccinate. I did it anyway. We don't talk now as I have a child who is autistic and she blamed me. My daughter was different from birth

Not sure why having a medical/scientific background means you can't change your mind?
But presumably everyone else is vaccinated and unlikely to pass on any of the illnesses the baby would have been vaccinated against, especially if they are not allowed to hold her.
How old is she?
It seems surprising they want to attend a large gathering if they never take the baby out?

Quokka is correct in that this baby is really only presumably different to vaccinated one-year-olds as regards the diseases vaccinated against by age 1.

For all the usual stuff (and covid) they will be exactly the same as every vaccinated infant!

I don't understand why you are so against this. I would feel let down (like your son) on this one...
It sounds like you will never see this child if that's how you feel and can't get over it.

Obviously common sense says nobody who is ill should be mixing at Christmas, or anytime really, but I'm sure you wouldn't get together if you had flu or a cold would you?

I tend to agree with you about keeping the baby away from crowds. Not the lack of vaccines particularly but just being around groups of strangers
My DD was 2 weeks old at her first Christmas. We took her to all the gatherings and ceilidhs. I assumed she would have immunity though mother's milk. She was handed around like a parcel.
As a result she had a cold for her first 3 months. Wee lamb

The parents are those who decide: whether they vaccinate and where they take the baby.

I think they are nuts to not vaccinate, but that is their choice.

It is also their choice as to whether they bring her to the Christmas festivities. It is their responsibility, not anyone else's. If the children around her are all vaccinated then they are unlikely to pass those illnesses on. As to other non-vaccinatable illnesses they are a risk anytime and anywhere.

Our first baby was born in December and at the time my OH was houseman on rotation at the hospital. In order that he should see her at all, we used to sleep in his room at the doctors' residence and baby was passed around by the doctors in the lounge and the mess ..... they became very attached to her. She was fine.

Escudo, I think your decision is entirely logical. I would do exactly the same, in that I'd offer to visit, but avoid inviting them to any crowded gatherings.

NotSpaghetti: 'I'm sure you wouldn't get together if you had flu or a cold' - well of course not, if you knew - but we can be infectious with Covid (and other things) with absolutely no symptoms.

A small child can pick up various infections in rapid succession - and go downhill fast. I'd never forgive myself if they were really poorly following an invitation from me - as I'd feel responsible.

Of course, Hetty you are right about not always knowing when we are infectious. I accept this may be a case of not wanting to be "the one" making the one-year-old ill.

Of course, if Escudo was to visit her son's family later she could still be "the one" who is carrying something and passes it on.

I accept that a gathering of a number of people multiplies the risk but all gatherings will go on multiplying risk forevermore. Will Escudo never see this grandchild or will they only not see them if there are others present too? I'm afraid I see no logic to say no to her son and then want to visit alone.

If the infant is not going to have any vaccinations (which sounds likely) then there will never be a family gathering which includes her son and family as"something" might be passed on.

Perhaps the three immunocompromised guests are actually anxious they might catch something from the unvaccinated infant? Just a thought.

NotSpaghetti

Quokka is correct in that this baby is really only presumably different to vaccinated one-year-olds as regards the diseases vaccinated against by age 1.

For all the usual stuff (and covid) they will be exactly the same as every vaccinated infant!

I don't understand why you are so against this. I would feel let down (like your son) on this one...
It sounds like you will never see this child if that's how you feel and can't get over it.

Obviously common sense says nobody who is ill should be mixing at Christmas, or anytime really, but I'm sure you wouldn't get together if you had flu or a cold would you?

My first baby's first Christmas was when she was days old.

Of course, she hadn't been vaccinated against anything and met all the family for the first time, including older cousins who were school age.

Has everyone else been vaccinated against childhood diseases?
Have you been in contact with any of the diseases listed in Quokka's post?
Is the baby breast-fed? That is supposed to provide immunity.

I can understand concerns about Strep A at the moment, that is of concern, but the baby wouldn't have had a Strep A vaccine as there isn't one.

We have medical/scientific backgrounds so we can’t change our minds
I don't understand, sorry.

pandapatch

Not sure why having a medical/scientific background means you can't change your mind?
But presumably everyone else is vaccinated and unlikely to pass on any of the illnesses the baby would have been vaccinated against, especially if they are not allowed to hold her.
How old is she?
It seems surprising they want to attend a large gathering if they never take the baby out?

I too don't understand what you mean by ' having a medical bavkground means you can't change your mind '?
I'm a public health nurse....1 of my GD is unvaccinated....her parents choice...I just accept it....not my decision to make....still see her as much as my other 2 GD..

LOUISA1523 - exactly!

Thank for your thoughts. It’s interesting and provides me with food for thought.

To enlighten you, the baby is 5 months old. Not breast fed. The scientific aspects of my family are involved in medical research, lecturers and a consultant who will all not be able to bite their lip. They asked me if she was vaccinated. We have had three cases of diphtheria less than a couple of miles away. It’s a realistic concern

I was thinking you lived in the U.K but looking at your name I’m guessing that’s not the case. It might be a completely different scenario in places where there as still outbreaks of eg diphtheria.

I am in the UK

There has been diphtheria in our area