Excess Deaths - 1000 per week

The fact that the National Health Service (nhs) is under enormous pressure is undisputed. Almost everything else is debated, including the question of how many patients are dying as a result of the chaos in hospitals. The proportion of patients who wait more than 12 hours in accident-and-emergency (a&e) departments to be admitted to a ward has risen from 2% to 7% over the past year. The Royal College of Emergency Medicine (rcem), a doctors’ association, has estimated that delays in a&e are leading to 300-500 additional deaths per week. Officials at nhs England do not accept this figure.

www.economist.com/britain/2023/01/11/how-many-excess-deaths-in-england-are-associated-with-a-and-e-delays

Dr John Campbell, whose blog I followed right from the beginning, is intimating that it’s the vaccine that is causing these excess deaths. I tried to post on his Facebook page that he said nothing about the vaccines posing a danger until he interviewed someone who claimed to be vaccine damaged and he then became very anti vaccine and conspiracy theorist.The page wouldn’t allow my post even though all I said was that I was very upset about what he was implying. At the beginning of the pandemic the advice he gave was very sound eg get an oximeter, take vitamin D, try to lose weight. To be fair he’s been banging on about the excess death rate for ages at a time when no one else was mentioning it. I don’t believe what he’s implying because I think there are lots of factors that are causing this, but it still worries me.

Daisymae

LizzieDrip

I expect that many of the excess deaths will be from sectors of society looked upon with utter disdain by this government, so they don’t care. They will be people from sociologically disadvantaged groups of society who possibly had inadequately managed health conditions (yuk; can just see Sunak turn his nose up) - so they don’t matter. Tories see them as a drain on resources anyway!

Quite possible. But what is needed is analysis of the stats so that we can understand the causes and address the issue. I doubt that there's a single answer but work needs to be done pretty quickly. People are dying.

... but work needs to be done pretty quickly. People are dying.

Quite!

I cannot remember who recommended this - it might have been a 'political commentator' (on matters medical), but it was suggested that the government could - like it did during Covid - fund the block booking of care home beds to discharge the (how many - thousands?) of medically fit patients. And mobilise an emergency force of volunteer carers to help support patients at home after they've been discharged.

At least one of the causes of these excess deaths is that very seriously ill people are waiting too many hours to be admitted.

One doctor - who I think wanted to remain anonymous - said that he had to move a very unwell patient out of a cubicle in A&E because another who was lying on a trolley in the corridor was, he knew, dying... and he didn't want that person to die in the corridor. This is awful to contemplate.

However, solutions are easy to offer but more difficult to put in practise.... where, for example, would that army of volunteer carers come from?

Perhaps the biggest hurdle though is that the current government doesn't appear to want to accept that the NHS is now in a full-blown crisis. Steve Barclay, the Health Secretary, has already denied the ONS figures on deaths - "I don't accept those figures".
With that approach, we're hardly likely to get an analysis of the statistics (an analysis which would certainly give an insight as to the causes). So while the government defend themselves and their record dealing with the NHS people are, as you say, dying.
I agree with you that there's probably not a single answer, but if the government refuse to acknowledge those figures - we'll get no answers at all.

I agree Daisymae. Without some analysis, any comments are just speculation. Not only that, but those with some kind of agenda will start using the stats to support their own argument and there will be all sorts of "fake news" stories. It's just not good enough for the government to ignore the figures, hoping nobody notices.

LizzieDrip

I expect that many of the excess deaths will be from sectors of society looked upon with utter disdain by this government, so they don’t care. They will be people from sociologically disadvantaged groups of society who possibly had inadequately managed health conditions (yuk; can just see Sunak turn his nose up) - so they don’t matter. Tories see them as a drain on resources anyway!

Quite possible. But what is needed is analysis of the stats so that we can understand the causes and address the issue. I doubt that there's a single answer but work needs to be done pretty quickly. People are dying.

I expect that many of the excess deaths will be from sectors of society looked upon with utter disdain by this government, so they don’t care. They will be people from sociologically disadvantaged groups of society who possibly had inadequately managed health conditions (yuk; can just see Sunak turn his nose up) - so they don’t matter. Tories see them as a drain on resources anyway!

I can't help thinking of many other 'advantages' for our government. Reduced outlay on pensions and disability benefits, fewer economically inactive - oh, and increased housing availability - what's not to like?

I was chatting to my hairdresser yesterday and her OH moves bodies as a job. Apparently there are 190 bodies in our local hospital mortuary and no more room. Quite a lot are younger
people. I think the government are being very deceitful and dishonest about the true numbers..

The Tory party always intended to do away with the NHS and have purposely run it down and privatised it, bit by bit, for the past 12 years.
They have got what they wanted and in the wreckage of our health system, extra deaths were inevitable.
What’s 1000 extra per week? Plenty more sick people where they came from, to go private and make a profit.

growstuff

Whatever the reason for them (and I don't know), Steve Barclay said on LBC "We don't accept those figures", so that's OK then! The ONS has obviously got them wrong!

... talk about contempt. If he doesn't accept those figures - then what is the point of the ONS?

I think what he's saying is that those figures are so damning of my government - so I'm going to deny them.

Iam64

My husband retired 10 years ago. He managed health-social care and yes they had good plans. He said then the death rate was increasing in a slightly younger age group. He commented last year, it was continuing

I’m listening to pmq’s. Sunak has no shame

Apparently the increase is across all age ranges. There surely needs to be investigations into the root causes. I guess that the NHS waiting lists are a factor, but there may be other issues at play. Whatever, a light needs to be shined and explanations given.

My husband retired 10 years ago. He managed health-social care and yes they had good plans. He said then the death rate was increasing in a slightly younger age group. He commented last year, it was continuing

I’m listening to pmq’s. Sunak has no shame

Is it a charity for people with existing health conditions?

I'm a Trustee on a charity that has certainly had increased admissions and unexpected deteriorations in the client group they serve since the summer.

maddyone

I might be wrong, but I thought the excess deaths have occurred because there are long waiting lists to get treatment post Covid.
Maybe someone else knows a bit more.

Not necessarily. The reports I've read say that it's difficult to pin down actual causes. I expect there are a number of reasons, but some investigation of the actual figures is needed. I'm appalled that the government doesn't even seem to believe their own statistics.

MSM doesnt seem to treat these deaths in the same alarming manner they did with covid.

I might be wrong, but I thought the excess deaths have occurred because there are long waiting lists to get treatment post Covid.
Maybe someone else knows a bit more.

Whatever the reason for them (and I don't know), Steve Barclay said on LBC "We don't accept those figures", so that's OK then! The ONS has obviously got them wrong!