Assisted dying: Parliamentary public consultstion

Fleurpepper

Shimanae, Alzheimers/dementia will not be part of any assisted dying scheme. Not for a very very long time, if ever. Even in countries where assisted dying is legal, you have to be totally compos mentis on the day of decision, and on the day of 'departure'. This is possible with cancer and many other terrible diseases, but not Alzheimers or dementia.

Anyone who follows Dignity in Dying and its patron Alex Pandolpho, will be very aware of this. The choice in such cases is a) far too soon or b) too late and not possible. For me, it would be a) because b) would be intolerable.

Thank you Fleurpepper,I know it isn’t but I’m saying I think it should be. I watched the documentary Terry Pratchett did a few years ago when he accompanied somebody to Switzerland to the Dignitas Clinic and the documentary showed it right up to its conclusion, when the gentleman took the concoction that killed him and like you say they asked him several times if he was sure he wanted to do it. That is my biggest fear that I will have dementia and not be able to do anything about it so if the worst happens I will check out sooner BUT shouldn’t have to ☹️

Yes, I agree. You should be able to make clear advanced directives in case of Alzheimers/dementia. But as said, despite many agreeing that should be the case, it just can't happen at this stage, and for a long time- as it would give weight to the slippery slope argument.

For now, we have to fight for the right of choice in all other scenarios.

Even in countries where assisted dying is legal, you have to be totally compos mentis on the day of decision, and on the day of 'departure'.

Fleurpepper, this is not true for the Netherlands, where the courts ruled in 2020 that doctors can euthanize patients with severe dementia without the fear of prosecution, provided the patient had submitted a clear request for this when they were mentally competent.

It is not, as you say, something being campaigned for in the UK (or any of the four nations, as far as I am aware).

fancythat the consultation is equally open to those who don’t wish the law to change.

But Canada appear to have got themselves into quite some difficulties already. I understand the debate is currently taking place there around euthanasia for those with mental illness. They have had legal euthanasia for 6 years.

Siope

^Even in countries where assisted dying is legal, you have to be totally compos mentis on the day of decision, and on the day of 'departure'.^

Fleurpepper, this is not true for the Netherlands, where the courts ruled in 2020 that doctors can euthanize patients with severe dementia without the fear of prosecution, provided the patient had submitted a clear request for this when they were mentally competent.

It is not, as you say, something being campaigned for in the UK (or any of the four nations, as far as I am aware).

fancythat the consultation is equally open to those who don’t wish the law to change.

Thank you for this, I really need to study the Netherlands Laws on the subject in detail. Is this available to those who are not resident in the Netherlands?

Fleurpepper in theory, yes. www.government.nl/topics/euthanasia/is-euthanasia-allowed - bottom of the document.

Galaxy, I don’t know know how Canadians would describe it. It certainly seems, from here, to be a robust debate, and I think the changes will be delayed, which perhaps suggests the system for reviewing changes is working.

Which country/countries?

Just completed the survey. As my husband died in agony from cancer aged 47. If he had wanted to end his life I would have gladly given him an over dose of morphine. It's quality not quantity of life that important. Those who believe at life at any cost haven't had my experience of watching 4 people die. Death is not beautiful it is horrific. No one would let an animal suffer by they let people do.

If it's the person's decision to end their suffering they should be able to and anyone who helps them should not be punished for it.

The survey is very quick and easy to do - posted just in case anyone is concerned about having to plough through a long survey.

Fleurpepper

A pity you won't discuss it. Your reasons and arguments would be interesting for all.

I think I know no more than what is already in the public domain. And which has probably been discussed many times before.

And what Galaxy says about Canada.
There are all sorts of issues surrounding it, happening over there.

No one is disputing the need for safeguards fancythat. The majority of posters here are in support of some form of assisted dying.
I do not mean to sound offensive but I would not let my dogs suffer at the end of their lives, in the way some humans do. I’m fact, I’d be prosecuted for animal cruelty

I believe there should be a choice, with obvious safeguards - however I am not so sure when it comes to dementia.

It is a very difficult and complicated subject. Those who have dementia are mostly unaware they have it - my mother has it and although not able to remember things is perfectly happy and content.

Having said that I am sure there are those who would prefer to end their lives rather than live with the disease. I really don't know what I choice I would make

You are so right, Iam.

Dementia is a difficult one to consider because some are happy in their own world, unaware of their condition, whilst others are distressed and maybe violent. I can only say that if I received a diagnosis of dementia I would reach for the pills pretty soon.

Germanshepherdsmum

You are so right, Iam.

Dementia is a difficult one to consider because some are happy in their own world, unaware of their condition, whilst others are distressed and maybe violent. I can only say that if I received a diagnosis of dementia I would reach for the pills pretty soon.

Having seen my mother endure a long, slow demise through dementia, I would do the same! In fact, had I been able to give her a dignified death, I would have done so too. Years before, she had cared for a friend who had dementia and always said she would not want to go the same way. We don't let our beloved pets suffer in this way, why should humans not be able to die with dignity?

Somebody mentioned "Still Alice" upthread.

Those of you who have seen it will remember that "reaching for the pills" isn't quite as simple as you might think.

To be honest, I hadn't thought of the live in care Fleurpepper. Unfortunately for someone who had lived in a one bedroom flat for 50 years "live in care" isn't the option you think it is.

volver

Somebody mentioned "Still Alice" upthread.

Those of you who have seen it will remember that "reaching for the pills" isn't quite as simple as you might think.

To be honest, I hadn't thought of the live in care Fleurpepper. Unfortunately for someone who had lived in a one bedroom flat for 50 years "live in care" isn't the option you think it is.

I still think “ Still Alice”is an excellent film, and I did say in my post that I knew taking my own life would not be as easy as swallowing a handful of pills…

I do too Shinamae. When I saw it the whole cinema was whispering the numbers to her when she couldn't remember them in order.

I'm just a bit fed up of the smug "Oh I'll just have a handful of pills because nobody's wiping my bum" brigade. I don't mean you.

The pills I take for epilepsy are strong Class A drugs volver. A hefty supply each month, guaranteed to do the job. And taken soon after diagnosis whilst still able to do so alone, I don’t envisage problems. Though obviously it’s not a pleasant scenario to contemplate.

I'd suggest you watch the film, GSM. I know its fiction. When my DF passed away, he still hadn't had a diagnosis. Life doesn't always turn out the way you think it will.

I have.

The ‘handful of drugs brigade’ - not a pleasant way to describe people who don’t want to suffer indignity or be a burden to their families.

volver

I do too Shinamae. When I saw it the whole cinema was whispering the numbers to her when she couldn't remember them in order.

I'm just a bit fed up of the smug "Oh I'll just have a handful of pills because nobody's wiping my bum" brigade. I don't mean you.

I was one of those willing her to remember,such a powerful but sad film….😢…. I know it is such an emotive subject, but really, I don’t understand why I can’t go to my doctor with my solicitor now, my doctor knows me and knows I would not be coerced into anything. I don’t want to sign out early, but if I get a diagnosis of dementia it’s what I will do. I’ve got it planned out. I’ve tried to tell my children but they really don’t want to know so it’s all written down. I work in a care home with high dementia and I can tell you the majority of people are very,very sad, confused people and their relatives visit and are heartbroken to see the state that their once vibrant parent is now. We had a former midwife a couple of years ago she was constantly distressed, walking around the home, clutching a baby doll and sobbing. Absolutely terrible to see.. we obviously did try to comfort her, but she was inconsolable and her sons used to visit her and said to us we wish she would just go because we can’t bear to see her like this…😓

Oh Shinamae, that's so sad. I have experience of the kind of situation you describe but I don't want to go into it here.

I firmly believe in assisted dying and think everybody should decide for themselves. I just get a bit exasperated when people say "Oh I'll never let that happen to me, I'll be long gone by then" when they cannot know what lies ahead.

BTW a friend of mine has a diagnosis of dementia. They went on a 30 day pacific cruise recently and spend time with their grandchildren, do work for charity and have a full life. They just can't remember what they had for lunch.

I just don't think its as straightforward as some seem to think, as I'm sure you know Shinamae.

A good post Shinamae, from ‘the front line’. Precisely what most of us would wish to avoid I’m sure, and it saddens me that volver thinks that planning to avoid it makes anyone ‘smug’. The prospect of having to take such action is pretty horrifying.