Statins and GPs

Iam64 I do find some if the advice against statins/ doctors/ nhs research mildly irritating. It’s personal choice, hopefully informed by discussion with a GP you trust. The idea that those of us who take statins somehow don’t understand the wider picture is really rather patronising and can feel smug.

Anyone who has seen the impact of a catastrophic stroke will understand the need to avoid it, if possible.

Indeed, too much patronising, smug talk regarding statins.

My husband, nearly 80, is still at work. He's slim with low weight, doesn't smoke, eats exceedingly well, walks miles a day, and participates in sports. He takes statins as prescribed, because he listens to his GP and chooses to follow the advice given. It's a wise choice for him - his numbers remain good.

nanna8

When people recover from heart attacks here they are put on high doses of statins to prevent further occurrences. That’s enough for me. I also think that it is very dangerous to just diss them as if there is some sort of conspiracy to get people to take them.

That's what happened to me in 2017. I had been advised about 10 years beforehand to take statins because I'm diabetic and had borderline high blood pressure and high triglycerides, but declined. Like so many other people, I don't like taking unnecessary medications and I guess I'd been swayed by the negative press.

I was prescribed statins after the heart attack (along with a load of other medications). All my markers are now well within normal range and I now take lower dose statins.

I do have muscle pains, so with my GP's agreement I had a break from statins, but there was no difference. It's been confirmed that I have diabetic neuropathy and spinal stenosis, which I have to live with as best as I can. I resumed the statins, which made no difference to the muscle pains and will take them for as long as advised. I really don't want to be in an ambulance again, being told I'm having a heart attack and thinking I'm going to die.

When people recover from heart attacks here they are put on high doses of statins to prevent further occurrences. That’s enough for me. I also think that it is very dangerous to just diss them as if there is some sort of conspiracy to get people to take them.

Primrose53

foxie48

Totally agree and I am furious that it is suggested that doctors get paid to prescribe statins, THEY DO NOT, they are paid to do sensible health checks. It is up to us to take their advice which is based on research or not, no-one is forced.

I can’t speak for others but what I said on Page 1 is that GPs get QOF Points which make a lot of money for their Practices.
I stand by that.

There is loads of info out there about this but some of it is very lengthy. I think the article below explains in simple terms how QOF Points make a lot of money for Practices.

www.patrickholford.com/advice/how-gps-are-paid-to-prescribe-ineffective-drugs/

Doctors do/did get paid for QOF points but rather than it being bonus money that goes into GPS pockets it’s the money that helps run Doctors surgeries, e.g. paying for staff, equipment etc. It is based on NICE guidelines and if the guidelines suggest people should take statins it becomes part of a QOF target BUT if the patient decides not to take them they can be recorded as having refused them or recorded as not being suitable or being contraindicated and the GP still gets the QOF points. The money the GPS get is the money that was taken away from them in the first place that they have to earn by reaching QOF targets. It isn’t a bonus on top of salary..

foxie48

Totally agree and I am furious that it is suggested that doctors get paid to prescribe statins, THEY DO NOT, they are paid to do sensible health checks. It is up to us to take their advice which is based on research or not, no-one is forced.

I agree with you 100%. The things people say about doctors, not nice things, is truly amazing.

Marydoll yes I know that some people need to take regular paracetamol and therefore need it prescribing because cheap as it is, it’s different to buy enough. It was myself who suggested to a friend that she got it prescribed for her husband who was suffering terminal cancer and the only painkiller that worked was paracetamol.

This is Patrick Holford's Wiki page:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Holford

People can make up their own minds about whether they'd trust what this man has to say.

Foxygloves I'm not telling people not to take statins. What I'm saying is that people don't have to do anything they don't want to do. They're being given good advice, but if they don't want to follow it, they need to stop moaning, go their own way and take responsibility for the consequences.

foxie48

Totally agree and I am furious that it is suggested that doctors get paid to prescribe statins, THEY DO NOT, they are paid to do sensible health checks. It is up to us to take their advice which is based on research or not, no-one is forced.

Agree 100%.

That article is highly emotive. Statins haven't been proven to be useless. There have been many studies which have shown that they are effective in reducing cholesterol levels and have resulted in fewer CVD deaths overall. There have been other studies which have shown that side effects are not so frequent as often reported.

The QOF system is currently being overhauled. It's an incentive for GPs to check their patients' biomarkers such as blood pressure and lipid levels. They are obliged to offer statins if patients' results are within certain parameters. The idea is/was to ensure that patients don't slip under the radar and to improve preventative medicine.

The article seems more like an opportunity for the author to push his book. We all know that lifestyle changes are the key to good health, but quite honestly there is a plethora of rubbish lifestyle advice around, which is probably just as harmful as any medications. People are notoriously resistant to taking advice from people they see as "know it alls".

The bottom line is that if people don't want to take statins, nobody is force feeding them. However, with about 75% of adults being overweight or obese and most people not getting anywhere near the amount of recommended exercise, it's fairly obvious that people aren't prepared to make the lifestyle changes needed for a healthier life. Statins do reduce risk, but they are only one factor.

foxie48

Totally agree and I am furious that it is suggested that doctors get paid to prescribe statins, THEY DO NOT, they are paid to do sensible health checks. It is up to us to take their advice which is based on research or not, no-one is forced.

I can’t speak for others but what I said on Page 1 is that GPs get QOF Points which make a lot of money for their Practices.
I stand by that.

There is loads of info out there about this but some of it is very lengthy. I think the article below explains in simple terms how QOF Points make a lot of money for Practices.

www.patrickholford.com/advice/how-gps-are-paid-to-prescribe-ineffective-drugs/

Juliet27

maddyone

Paracetamol and Ibuprofen are cheap enough and unless we can’t get out to buy them, or really can’t afford them, I feel we should buy them.

I do agree. I was just surprised that they were offered on prescription.

I receive paracetamol on prescription, not because I want them for free, but because I take eight a day, along with my other RA meds. That is the regime prescribed by my consultant.
Try buying 240 paracetamol monthly, when sales are restricted.

maddyone

Paracetamol and Ibuprofen are cheap enough and unless we can’t get out to buy them, or really can’t afford them, I feel we should buy them.

I do agree. I was just surprised that they were offered on prescription.

Totally agree and I am furious that it is suggested that doctors get paid to prescribe statins, THEY DO NOT, they are paid to do sensible health checks. It is up to us to take their advice which is based on research or not, no-one is forced.

Excellent post Iam64, thank you. Mildly irritating is a great understatement- it is plain dangerous.

Iam64, you have vocalised exactly what I have been thinking.
Thank you!

I have to say, I am more than irritated by some of the dismissive comments here. I am very well informed, I have to be to have the best quality of life possible.

Like Marydoll, I have inflammatory arthritis and a number of other auto immune conditions that travel with it. I have AF, probably triggered by a significant chest infection 8 years ago. My very good GP and separately, my cardiologist said these things, combine with family history of heart attacks and strokes, lead them to conclude statins are needed. My cholesterol as with my mothers, was high. Hers 8.7 ( she lived well to 86 when a catastrophic stroke arrived). Mine 5.2 which given all circs I accepted needed to reduce. I’m due for updated bloods this week, but 6 months ago, it was 3.2

Sorry for the lengthy personal stuff but - I do find some if the advice against statins/doctors/nhs research mildly irritating. It’s personal choice, hopefully informed by discussion with a GP you trust. The idea that those of us who take statins somehow don’t understand the wider picture is really rather patronising and can feel smug.

Anyone who has seen the impact of a catastrophic stroke will understand the need to avoid it, if possible

Bad cholesterol high and family history.

Glorianny

growstuff

Glorianny

My GP didn't even bother to tell me personally that I should take statins, I was telephoned by a pharmacist who told me that my cholesterol level was high and I should take them What I find difficult is understanding the relationship between good and bad cholesterol and how that affects things. I have a high level of good cholesterol, if you look at the ratio of good to bad mine is much better than someone who wouldn't be prescribed statins.
I don't take them. Just before covid I took part in some research and one of the things measured was my blood flow, indicating how healthy my arteries are. Mine was excellent for my age.

Don't you have to authorise repeat prescriptions either online or on a paper form? Just don't tick that box if you don't want to take them.

I didn't accept them in the first place. Although the girl from the pharmacist tried her best, nagged on I suspect by someone else. She seemed to take my refusal quite well at first and hung up after I'd given my reasons, she rang back 5 mins later and tried again to persuade me.

A friend of mine refused, again and again, and again some more. Slim, very healthy diet. He had read all the nonsense on the internet, all the bad reviews and all about side-effects. When he died of a massive stroke, his wife wanted to sue the GP and Consultant for not making him really understand why he should really have taken them!

This was in direct response to Shropshirelass who said ' Why oh why? I have not been prescribed them and would refuse them anyway.'

Fleurpepper

Shropshirelass

The ‘Health’ watchdogs have recommended that everyone takes statins! Why oh why? I have not been prescribed them and would refuse them anyway. Cholesterol is now being regarded as necessary (even our brains are made up of mostly cholesterol), it is essential for us to live and is no longer being considered evil. The things that are causing the problems are sugar, carbohydrates and processed foods. We need to eat meat, dairy, eggs and animal fats for our bodies to work efficiently. Get rid of sugar and carbs, in turn reduce obesity, and statins will be a thing of the past and would save the NHS millions in unnecessary drug prescriptions.

No medical advice given by myself or growstuff- just countering and balancing comments like the above, which can be truly dangerous.

If you are borderline and have no family history of heart disease and strokes- then refuse them if offered

This looks as near as dammit like “medical advice^ to me .

Foxygloves I don’t think somebody who is not a health professional should be giving medical advice. It is up to the individual to ask the appropriate people before making an informed decision.

Indeed.

Same could be said to good diets and paucity of nutrients, weight control, and genetics. Ask and make your own choice.

Foxygloves

Fleurpepper

growstuff

Excess sugar and starch increase your triglyceride level, which is another form of fat and usually measured in a cholesterol test. Statins will help bring them down.

This. Some cholesterol is good, other is bad. If you are borderline and have no family history of heart disease and strokes- then refuse them if offered.

If bad cholesterol is significantly over limit and family history indicates you are at risk- then don't listen to all the nay sayers and fear mongers, and listen to your doctor.

I don’t think somebody who is not a health professional should be giving medical advice . It is up to the individual to ask the appropriate people before making an informed decision.

I agree! That's why I find it a bit disturbing that there have been so many negative comments about statins. My feeling is that everybody has a right to control what they put inside their bodies. We're fortunate that there are treatments for conditions which would have killed people prematurely in the past. I know that there is much disagreement about taking statins, even amongst medics and scientists, but if people don't want to take them, they don't have to. It's absolutely fine if they want to be responsible.

Paracetamol and Ibuprofen are cheap enough and unless we can’t get out to buy them, or really can’t afford them, I feel we should buy them.

I notice ibuprofen on the patient access you sent. I always buy mine - didn’t realise you can get them on prescription .