Very worried about elderly dad and geriatric hospital ward

My dear Dad had a DNR but a young doctor on night duty overruled it and gave him CPR. It was awful. Cruel. He died the next day. 😑

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I didn't expect my post to provoke such a wealth of commentary over experiences within this area, but I have appreciated everyone's views and advice.

Ultimately we can see how treatment of the elderly with life-limiting conditions (or not) is so variable throughout the NHS. The problem lies with how some doctors/consultants view the elderly and the fact that it seems in some cases there is a presumption that they are on the way out anyway so why persevere. Whether that is due to demands placed on the NHS capacity, or down to indifferent treatment. diagnosis and poor nursing care ... all elderly patients should at least be given a chance and not written off as a drain on resources.

'Geriatric' general wards are not the right place for the elderly - so many of them go downhill very fast in those places when they might receive better holistic care elsewhere in the difficult later stages of life. Have witnessed enough in the last week on the ward where my dad is. My dad is due to be discharged to home tomorrow where, God willing, we can look after him with care. He is just fading fast in that wretched place.

I'm so glad that your dad is coming home, whatever happens its the best place for him and your mother. I nursed my husband at home and I found it difficult and frightening, but looking back I am so glad I did. I nearly had him taken to the hospice but was told he would die in the ambulance, which would have been dreadful. It was also dreadful having him live on for another week, (not for me but for him) but at least I can say that I did everything I could. It is so hard and I feel for you and your mum.

I was asked at the hospital to make the decision to give CPR to my Mum when she had a massive heart attack aged 90
The doctor very kindly explained to be that it could be very painful and brutal and she had a very poor life ahead through Alzheimer’s
I made the decision that would end her life

We have to remember that life cannot go on for ever, we have to accept it ends and sometimes just because you can give longer, doesn’t mean you should

drbledu23

I didn't expect my post to provoke such a wealth of commentary over experiences within this area, but I have appreciated everyone's views and advice.

Ultimately we can see how treatment of the elderly with life-limiting conditions (or not) is so variable throughout the NHS. The problem lies with how some doctors/consultants view the elderly and the fact that it seems in some cases there is a presumption that they are on the way out anyway so why persevere. Whether that is due to demands placed on the NHS capacity, or down to indifferent treatment. diagnosis and poor nursing care ... all elderly patients should at least be given a chance and not written off as a drain on resources.

'Geriatric' general wards are not the right place for the elderly - so many of them go downhill very fast in those places when they might receive better holistic care elsewhere in the difficult later stages of life. Have witnessed enough in the last week on the ward where my dad is. My dad is due to be discharged to home tomorrow where, God willing, we can look after him with care. He is just fading fast in that wretched place.

I agree about the varying standards of treatment, but I do think the staff struggle to deal with the numbers of patients and the care they need.
There is also the problem of families who simply "dump" their elderly relative and only visit occasionally.
A simple thing I thought might help would be the return of the communal meal, where those mobile enough would eat at a table together. It might help those not eating and would break the isolation.

There's a nice dining room in each of the wards I attend. Few patients want to eat there despite staff's best efforts. It's the same with the day rooms/lounges. Just because people are old doesn't mean they have anything in common with other patients. Some of the people I visit have an absolute horror of being 'lumped together' with other patients and prefer their own rooms. Others are more sociable or at least willing to try. Everyone is different!

Aveline

There's a nice dining room in each of the wards I attend. Few patients want to eat there despite staff's best efforts. It's the same with the day rooms/lounges. Just because people are old doesn't mean they have anything in common with other patients. Some of the people I visit have an absolute horror of being 'lumped together' with other patients and prefer their own rooms. Others are more sociable or at least willing to try. Everyone is different!

I’d endorse that, the hospitals where I worked had dining rooms, but patients don’t like using them. I think part of the reason is that patients in hospital tend to be sicker than they were in the past, so they have been discharged by the time they are up to sitting out of bed and socialising.

Another thing to think about re palliative care: each of us just knows about the end of our partners' or family members' lives. Consultants will have experience of literally thousands of lives. Evidence based practice is integral to NHS care. The problem here seems to be the way that treatment plans are communicated between teams and shared with family.

Well my dad was finally discharged home yesterday ... hell getting all the various depts of the care teams to coordinate but eventually have him settled in the living room.

He has been dozing pretty constantly for the last couple of days, my mum still getting him to eat and drink a little - he takes OK to soups and rice puddings and has taken some tea and hot chocolate. Unexpectedly he did open his eyes when the ambulance reached home - think he knew where he was.

My mum just now dealing with the host of carers and support bodies who are descending on the house. She needs to establish exactly who is doing what, when and why for her own sanity, although still convinced that she can do a better job herself!

We don't really know at this point what the expectancy is - days or weeks - but just glad that dad is home. Didn't want to lose him to the hospital.

Very much appreciate your update drbledu23. Glad your dad is home at last and hopefully your mother can get some comfort and rest being away from the hospital environment. No doubt there are many difficult days ahead. You all will be in my thoughts.

I'm so pleased that dad is home from hospital. I honestly think hospitals are awful places to be these days (four days was enough for me - grim). To be dependant on people is bad enough but at least at home there are familar things, smells, noises and people, and especially people. I wish you all well and hope things go as well as can be expected.

So pleased to hear your dad is home. I wish everything wasn’t so flipping complicated. Just when your tired and need every ounce of strength to get by. Wishing you all lots of luck.

I'm glad he's home. It's a lot for your poor Mum to cope with. I hope she can have a bit of a rest now.

I m glad to hear you have your dad home but I hope your mum appreciates all the help we get when elderly are going home from hospital.. 6 weeks free carers, and many useful items to help the ill patient live as comfortable a life as possible
I understand she sounds a very independent strong lady but we all have to take help at some time in our lives and it’s about what’s comfortable and right for your Dad in his last weeks months or whatever of life
The very elderly can go down hill very very fast my own Dad was 92 and still walking around the house and with the help of carers and myself managing , he was putting himself to bed and dressing / washing alone etc Then it was found he had an extremely low blood count which needed more tests , which then reveal terminal cancer and within 3 weeks he had died.
I hope this doesn’t happen with your Dad but don’t blame anybody if it does

Thank you for the update .

Very hard whilst all the care stuff gets sorted out, but it worked out well for MiL in the end glad to say. Mum might want to do it all but.... x...no.

Glad he's home.
This happened to my friends parents.
Her mum too thought she could do the extra caring for her poorly Dad. The hospital sorted a Care plan at discharge, but her mum thought she didn't need help, consequently the Carers reported as they have to do daily what they do and don't do. The Care Package was pulled, with no help provided.
Her Dad went down hill, he was re admitted to hospital, then passed away.
Let them do their job, the more Mum and the family do, this care could be taken away.
I appreciate she cares very much and "for better or worse" but let them do the hard work and she can just love and care for him.

The lack of carers is such a sad situation.

My DH aged 87 had been becoming steadily weaker and was admitted to hospital. After a few days with reasonable care (obviously I was with him except for a few hours sleep at home) we were told that he would now be receiving palliative care.
My DH and I longed for him to die at home, but there just weren't any carers to be had where we live (home county). The private companies are under contract to the NHS, in any case. The private company our son approached suggested that they might be able to fly someone in from Zimbabwe, but DH was going downhill very quickly.
So his last days were in a care home (no room at the hospice attached to the local hospital). The deft and tender care he received from two Nepali wives was lovely to observe. Our son and daughter both got compassionate leave and one of us was with him round the clock until he died. He was never confused and had little pain, sad to be leaving us of course, but accepting.

My family felt that his death was peaceful and actually well managed. And we are grateful to the NHS for the way it does fund end of life.

Sad outcome to report. My dad died peacefully in his sleep early this morning. He waited until my mum took a little nap and I think he just decided to go.

At least we had him at home - he woke up briefly when the ambulance reached the house and smiled.

Devastated and trying to keep myself together for my mum.

So sorry for your loss, but he's now beyond all hurt, and although she won't necessarily see it that way, at least the physical and some of the emotional pressure is now off your Mum, and the grieving process can start. At least he spent his last days at home, in familiar surroundings, with his loved ones near. May your dear Dad rest in peace. My sincere condolences to you and yours.

So sorry for your loss. So pleased your dad got home again where he was with family. Thinking of you.

So sorry to hear that news.
He obviously had a loving caring family and a beautiful life. Condolences to you all 🌹

My dad died peacefully in his sleep

So sad for you all, but the best way for your dad to go, at home with his loved ones near.

Sincere sympathy to you all.