The other C word (Covid)

MissChateline The trouble with that approach is that are people like luluaugust' daughter's colleague, who are irresponsible and selfish.

MissChateline

I’m taking part in a Covid vaccine medical trial. I’ve been given a Moderna vaccine, either the regular one or a tweaked one a couple of weeks ago. I won’t know for 12 months which one it was. This will be my 5th dose.
We can not keep running away from this. Like others have said, people die of flu. It’s up to each one of us to take the precautions we feel are personally required. This is what should have happened from the start of the pandemic. Maybe we we wouldn’t be in the NHS backlog and economic m as we are in.

Hang in a minute. Are you saying that it would have been better to let it rip through the population initially. And now saying it’s down to personal responsibility. Whilst being someone that is still having the vaccine that people like me can’t have even though we would like to have it??

Am I right in believing that Sweden didn’t lock down, didn’t close schools etc and their outcome was better than here in the UK. They expected the population to take responsibility for themselves and they did. We should never have destroyed our economy or subjected the population to the torture of enforced isolation which has resulted in such a high level of mental health issues and wrecked the education for so many of our children.

I can only suggest that you Google it and read the various reports on the Swedish experiment because it’s quite complicated. From what I’ve read they withheld treatment from some vulnerable people and their economy didn’t fare better than their neighbouring Scandinavian countries. Even if there wasn’t a lockdown there were still restrictions. And it’s difficult to compare to other countries because of population density etc. But I don’t understand why, if you’re in favour of some sort of herd immunity (which doesn’t seem to be possible with covid) you’re having the vaccine?

I don’t believe in herd immunity. It was never going to happen. But I do believe in allowing each person to be able to do what they felt right for themselves to reduce their own likelihood of being Ill. Rather than sacrificing the young people who were far less likely to be ill to the draconian measures that were inflicted on them and which has damaged an entire generation. The vulnerable could choose to isolate themselves. The rest of us could get on with life as near to normal as possible.
Having the vaccine was one way I chose to reduce my own vulnerability. Some people chose not to have it. I chose to continue to mix with other people during lockdown including about 20 different workmen who were renovating my house at the time. No one wore masks. I chose to go out several times a day hiking on the hills and see my children and neighbours. I chose not to bleach my cabbages or microwave my newspaper. Some people chose to continue to wear masks and not go to crowded places still.

MissChateline

Am I right in believing that Sweden didn’t lock down, didn’t close schools etc and their outcome was better than here in the UK. They expected the population to take responsibility for themselves and they did. We should never have destroyed our economy or subjected the population to the torture of enforced isolation which has resulted in such a high level of mental health issues and wrecked the education for so many of our children.

No, you're not right. Large gatherings (more than 8 people) were banned. Secondary schools and institutes of higher education were recommended to work online and eventually closed for a period. The number of deaths in care homes was high and eventually people were recommended not to visit their relatives and were then banned. Initially, face masks weren't recommended but eventually they were. People were advised to work at home if they could and about 50% did. Social distancing was recommended and there were restrictions on travel.

MissChateline

I don’t believe in herd immunity. It was never going to happen. But I do believe in allowing each person to be able to do what they felt right for themselves to reduce their own likelihood of being Ill. Rather than sacrificing the young people who were far less likely to be ill to the draconian measures that were inflicted on them and which has damaged an entire generation. The vulnerable could choose to isolate themselves. The rest of us could get on with life as near to normal as possible.
Having the vaccine was one way I chose to reduce my own vulnerability. Some people chose not to have it. I chose to continue to mix with other people during lockdown including about 20 different workmen who were renovating my house at the time. No one wore masks. I chose to go out several times a day hiking on the hills and see my children and neighbours. I chose not to bleach my cabbages or microwave my newspaper. Some people chose to continue to wear masks and not go to crowded places still.

So you really don't care that you could have been infecting vulnerable people? Do you think it's right that the elderly and those at high risk should have been isolated in their homes, while everybody else was gadding about without a thought for others?

How could people get on with life as near as possible? The NHS was on its knees. A nurse from the next village to me died of covid. Teachers were coming down with it. Doctors were dying of it. I, too, did everything I could to safeguard the people around me and NHS/shop workers by cutting myself off from pretty much everybody, including my grandchildren and children. My youngest grandchild didn’t know me when I did start looking after him again. Ok, I was protecting myself but,unlike many of the people on their doorsteps clapping for the NHS I did it to protect them and ease their workload.

Yes, I do agree that vulnerable people should have isolated themselves and the rest of society should have been allowed to get on with their lives as normal as possible. If I had been vulnerable at all I would have taken greater precautions and kept myself safe. But I’m not vulnerable. Neither did I contract covid so didn’t infect anyone else. On the whole the people who were very ill were those with underlying health conditions and they knew who they were. They could choose to isolate. I think that we all had a personal responsibility to look after our own health and for many if us this wasn’t harming our mental health and physical health by sitting at home in our own for months on end.
Never again should this happen.

growstuff

MissChateline

I don’t believe in herd immunity. It was never going to happen. But I do believe in allowing each person to be able to do what they felt right for themselves to reduce their own likelihood of being Ill. Rather than sacrificing the young people who were far less likely to be ill to the draconian measures that were inflicted on them and which has damaged an entire generation. The vulnerable could choose to isolate themselves. The rest of us could get on with life as near to normal as possible.
Having the vaccine was one way I chose to reduce my own vulnerability. Some people chose not to have it. I chose to continue to mix with other people during lockdown including about 20 different workmen who were renovating my house at the time. No one wore masks. I chose to go out several times a day hiking on the hills and see my children and neighbours. I chose not to bleach my cabbages or microwave my newspaper. Some people chose to continue to wear masks and not go to crowded places still.

So you really don't care that you could have been infecting vulnerable people? Do you think it's right that the elderly and those at high risk should have been isolated in their homes, while everybody else was gadding about without a thought for others?

For those of us, who are CEV, Covid is a killer.

I totally agree with you Growstuff.
I was advised that I would die if I caught Covid and had to shield. There would be no point in me going to ICU and a DNR notice had been put on my records.
I did not choose to isolate myself, I had no alternative, given the predicted outcome. 😡

MissChateline

Yes, I do agree that vulnerable people should have isolated themselves and the rest of society should have been allowed to get on with their lives as normal as possible. If I had been vulnerable at all I would have taken greater precautions and kept myself safe. But I’m not vulnerable. Neither did I contract covid so didn’t infect anyone else. On the whole the people who were very ill were those with underlying health conditions and they knew who they were. They could choose to isolate. I think that we all had a personal responsibility to look after our own health and for many if us this wasn’t harming our mental health and physical health by sitting at home in our own for months on end.
Never again should this happen.

Much of that is untrue.

Covid hit in unexpected places and previously fit people died or have been left with lasting health problems.

Then we are agreed. If you know that you are vulnerable then you take the decision to shield and isolate. That keeps you safe. It also means that the rest of society can function in some capacity.

Then we are agreed
How, exactly?

MissChateline

Then we are agreed. If you know that you are vulnerable then you take the decision to shield and isolate. That keeps you safe. It also means that the rest of society can function in some capacity.

Agree???

As long as the rest of society is OK, let's lock up the vulnerable. so that the rest of you can get on with your lives.

I firmly believe that after experiencing two years of isolation, there has to be an alternative. What it is, I have no idea!
The effects of isolation, lonliness and fear of dying of Covid, had the most dreadful effect on my mental and emotional wellbeing.
No hospital treatment, for multiple comorbidities, even after a heart attack, (too risky) was awful. I felt I had been written off!
Perhaps all the CEV should have euthanised, in order to take the pressure off the NHS and let others function in some capacity.

That if you are vulnerable you isolate and keep yourself away from the possibility of catching anything and if you are not vulnerable you get on with life as normally as possible.

So if you’re not vulnerable why are you having a vaccine that a vulnerable person could have? Have you told the people organising this trial that you totally ignored lockdown rules? I said at the time and I still believe it that people that had covid mildly or didn’t catch it at all seem to think they’re omnipotent in some way. I still haven’t had it so, as far as I’m concerned, covid is still like Russian roulette and I have no idea how my body is going to react to it.

I’m taking part in this trial to help with the progress of medicines because I am lucky enough to be nearly 70 and have never had a days serious illness in my life. It is something that I can do for society and to help make more vulnerable people safer.
I don’t think that I’m omnipotent at all. I caught Covid for the first time at the end of last year. I lost my sense of smell and taste. What I don’t agree with is the locking up of everyone in order to protect the few who were more than capable of shielding themselves.

I went on a Danube River cruise with a friend. We are both 76, vaccinated and boosted. We had a wonderful time but both tested positive four days ago. DH is staying nearby at our daughter's house until I test negative. I'm thankful I was prescribed Paxlovid. I had a temp of 100.7, but normal now. My appetite is down and I've had no desire for an evening glass of wine or beer. I've been sleeping in the daytime a lot.

Get well soon Mom3.

I’m afraid I find it arrogant and selfish to suggest that just the vulnerable should isolate themselves and let everyone else get on with life normally. If that happened, Covid would just keep on circulating because there would be no mitigations in place, and the vulnerable would need to stay locked up forever. No, this had to be tackled together, as as a society. And despite mistakes being made, and things being constantly altered, that’s how we did did it, until the vaccines were able to free us from endless restrictions. I agree with others who have made the points that we did what was necessary until it became unnecessary. I hope it won’t be necessary again because I don’t think the country can afford it, but these new variants are certainly worrying.

These vulnerable people are often very isolated already and I totally agree with Maddyone. It is something we all must take part in and stop being so selfish as to have the ‘I’m alright,Jack’ attitude. I thought that went out with Thatcher. We had one of, if not the, most harsh lockdowns in the world here and were not allowed to travel more than 5 km from home for any reason for a long time. We had to be vaccinated, no choice , or jobs would be forfeit and we weren’t even allowed to go to church without showing our certificates ( after the ban on meeting was lifted) We resented it ,of course, but thousands of lives were saved so looking back it was the right thing at the time. If you have symptoms or are in close contact with a Covid case I think isolation is the only answer.

Because of my health problems I still do a LFT every Saturday. And if I get a cold have to check it's just a cold. As soon as they say we can book Covid vaccine for the winter I will get it booked. Booked my flu jab 2 weeks ago for September. Also from September I will beable to get shingles vaccine as they are lowering the age group for it. So that will also be booked once I know when it's available.

I have been very lucky not to have caught Covid as I have been in close contact with people who then tested positive for. My daughter laughs says she can't understand it as I am a prime candidate to get it. But she and my 2 grandson's have had it once before the vaccine was available for her age group and my son in law has had it twice once when the rest of the family had it. And once a year after being vaccinated.

With the hot weather I had to stop wearing my mask on the bus because it made my breathing harder. But once the autumn chills hit it's back on.

Covid like flu mutants and is here to stay.

Maddyone, (and Nanna) thank you for your supportive post. Selfish and uncaring posts can be quite unsettling. Thank goodness I am a very resilient person!

Mom3, what a rotten end to your holiday.💐

A Rine or Danube cruise has always been on my bucket list, along with coach tours around Britain, (can't get travel insurance.) but the possibility of catching Covid has caused them to be put on hold.

What exactly is selfish and uncaring about not wanting every young person to have a continuous education within an educational environment. Not wanting large numbers of young people to experience debilitating mental health problems or rendering them unemployable due to broken education or mental health issues thus destroying their futures. So many Young people sacrificed their futures for the sake of the few.
What is selfish about wanting the vast numbers of people who are very unlikely to be very unwell to be able to continue with their lives and employment. What is selfish about not wanting the economy to be trashed so that everyone suffers? What is selfish about not wanting the despair of people who died due to the unavailability of any real healthcare during the lockdowns.
Never again should this happen. As nanna8 says “These vulnerable people are often very isolated already” why do they expect the rest of society to close down when those with vulnerabilities are already shielding.

MayBee70

How could people get on with life as near as possible? The NHS was on its knees. A nurse from the next village to me died of covid. Teachers were coming down with it. Doctors were dying of it. I, too, did everything I could to safeguard the people around me and NHS/shop workers by cutting myself off from pretty much everybody, including my grandchildren and children. My youngest grandchild didn’t know me when I did start looking after him again. Ok, I was protecting myself but,unlike many of the people on their doorsteps clapping for the NHS I did it to protect them and ease their workload.

Exactly!

Have people forgotten what was happening in the countries that were struck with Covid before us, of hospitals that were completely utterly overwhelmed, not just with very sick/ dying patients, but with the staff themselves falling like flies too.

If we had 'carried on as normal', most businesses would have been unable to operate properly anyway as their staff fell ill in large numbers.

No one knew how long it might last, how many it would kill or how many might be left permanently damaged by it.

How on Earth were we meant to carry on as normal through that?

I don’t know if everything around you closed down but it didn’t around me. Shops stayed open and public transport continued. Essential workers continued to work and I’m sure many more would have done so if they hadn’t been confined to home