Mental Health issues or Challenges of Life?

And yet our society, certainly our children seem a lot sicker than previously.

PoliticsNerd

Doodledog

Comparing the experience of work-related stress to someone going blind oversimplifies the complexities involved in both situations. Instead, it would be beneficial to advocate for creating an environment that addresses all health issues and treatment.

Your stereotyping of "stress" as an illness that is 'less than" a physical one may lead to stigma which heaps additional negativity on sufferers. This in turn can lead to the sort of discrimination you seem to favour. It would also results in social marginalisation and systemic inequalities.

Attitudes that prioritise physical health over mental health, lead to a lack of understanding and support for individuals with mental health issues and quite possibly a much sicker country that you cannot wish away simply by devaluing those suffering.

Well yes, analogies do oversimplify. That's the point of them, really.

I don't know how often I need to say that I do understand that there is a difference between real illness and 'life's ups and downs'. These conversations are always censored as people refuse to believe that and throw around accusations of insensitivity and lack of understanding, or misinterpret what is actually said. As an example, at no point did I say that mental health is 'less than' physical health. I didn't insinuate that either, as I don't believe it to be true. What I do believe is that
stress is something that happens from time to time, and we all feel it. If there is an inspection, or an audit, or an exam or whatever, people feel stress. An anxiety state (as opposed to feeling anxious) is different, and that difference is what this thread is supposedly about.

Someone opting out of the workplace on full salary every time the stressful incident occurs is passing their stress on to others with no regard for their mental health. Or at best they are prioritising their own feelings over those of others.

Someone who suffers from generalised anxiety should be treated medically, but can't expect to go though life with everyone else covering for them. If they can't do the job they are being paid for, it makes sense for them to get another one, at least until they are cured, as generalised anxiety is, by definition, a recurring issue, unlike reactive stress.

What do you suggest? That people can take stressful jobs with commensurate salaries and then let colleagues and employers down every time there is something happening that pushes them out of their comfort zone? That is what happened with my colleague. We were short-staffed, there was no alternative but for me to pick up her slack, and run myself ragged. There was a very real chance that the department would have closed if I hadn't.

I ended up taking early retirement with loss of pension, whilst she stayed on with regular long periods of sick leave, accruing more pension and drawing full salary - she always recovered just before her pay would have been halved.

Galaxy

And yet our society, certainly our children seem a lot sicker than previously.

I think you could have said that about any illness that was not understood and then discoveries were found that mean it can be defined.

I have one physical condition that is idiopathic although in some people the cause is known. I also have one that is diagnosed by testing and excluding known, testable conditions. Just because we don't yet know everything about them doesn't mean the effects they have on my life are imaginary!

We know much less about the mind but our ignorance should not be excused as an overreach in diagnostic practices when many people's life's are improved by treatment.

This seems to be the extremist finding yet another group to attack both for click and kicks.

"Well yes, analogies do oversimplify. That's the point of them, really." (Doodledog)

Really? Simplify, yes. But what is the point of oversimplification.

To show how a principle works by showing it in a different context. I’m sure you are fully aware of that.

Doodledog

I think many of us can remember certain members of staff who were off frequently, leaving others to cope.

Often having up to 6 months off, on full pay, then miraculously return just before their salary dropped to half.

Then back at work for a bit before it all started again.

I can speak from experience living very close to someone with mental health issues who is offered no help just different pills. It has been a waste of a young life, now he is suicidal and no one cares even his family washed their hands of him. He was a good looking, clever lad but was never good enough for his parents, he felt rejected and has been. Others would say so what and make a good life, I know I would, he couldn't and has dwelt on his failures. I would not wish that life on anyone, no one would choose it. It drives me mad but I can't turn away as I know how kind he is and damaged but it makes me ill. He has no friends, doesn't work and sits in his room. Would you choose that? He's not likely to change now as the older he gets the worse he gets. No one would seek his company.
I get down but snap out of it because I can, it's ridiculous to tell some one with genuine mental health issues to get on with it.

Calendargirl

Doodledog

I think many of us can remember certain members of staff who were off frequently, leaving others to cope.

Often having up to 6 months off, on full pay, then miraculously return just before their salary dropped to half.

Then back at work for a bit before it all started again.

Yes, that’s exactly it.

Allsorts, what you are describing is very different from the subject of this thread. Absolutely nobody on this thread is suggesting that people with mental illness should snap out of it. Nobody.

Cabbie21

I agree with Doodledog.

Resilience is an attribute that seems to be overlooked today. Coping with what life throws at you.

Of course, for some people, life throws more than is possible to cope with without help and support.
And of course, there is mental illness( why isn’t that term used these days?). Both my sister and another relative have long-term diagnosed mental illnesses.
That’s different.

I am pleased there is more NHS help available for people with serious mental health issues, however, even if it is not enough or not soon enough.

You’re not wrong there, much more help needs to be available for those who need it and more quickly.

We paid privately in the end for our daughter, having waited 10 years for NHS help

Allsorts. Going slightly off topic, the young man you mention sounds very similar to my brother. He was handsome, clever, witty, talented and kind. He was a talented footballer and was in invited to go for a trial at a Premier League club but wouldn't go because 'they had only asked him to laugh at him '. People got fed up with him.

Our childhood was horrendous but I also believe, in hindsight, that something traumatic happened to him outside of the home which he never told anyone about. All this ended in tragedy.

I hope the young man in your post gets the help he needs and deserves.

Yes and in the past mentally ill people took there own lives and it was quietly hushed up. As in my DHs family.
Also relatives were placed in asylums and it was just accepted. And people got on with their lives.

I do think Covid did not help at all.
Just the loss of socialising and meeting up with others.
Also there are the toxic effects of social media.

We live in an age where information and news is so much more prominent now. It always seems to be all the bad news too.
Life in many ways is harder and less secure.
The pandemic caused many people to have stressful situations to cope with and I am sure that this has left its own legacy.
Yes one can get on with life, but it doesn’t mean that things won’t have impact in some way.

I disagree with some of this, firstly self- care is not selfish, there is a massive difference. Self care benefits the people around them and is essential in helping people to manage mental ill health. Also I agree that there is a massive surge of people being diagnosed or self diagnosing anxiety and depression and unfortunately GP's are happy to prescribe anti- depressants without offering alternative therapies, such as counselling. The thing is is that many people including myself live in dire situations that are difficult to change and so we have to manage those debilitating feelings, whilst having to work full time, managing the household, not having much money and everything else, so anti-depressants for me keep me being able to stay on top of things and not have to feel crap all of the time, they allow me to function at a normal level, its sad but unfortunately true. Tony Blair had a point, however he is coming from a privileged background where there are no money worries, good food available and can get away if he chooses to, most people in the UK do not have this and are having to manage and deal with extreme sadness, challenges, which exacerbates ill mental health. yes Wealthy people do have ill mental health too, but many people are born down by so much that yes it comes out as anxiety and depression.

I’m glad society now has the language to express how they are feeling and not feel shame . As with most other things people will use this to their advantage. We were an emotionally repressed nation and the younger generations are not for being told to shut up and put up with. I speak from experience lots of different perspectives. A friend had a complete mental breakdown due to carrying on , another self medicating with alcohol. All older. Younger friends more willing to address concerns early.

I think Tony Blair has missed the point.

There is so much here to unpick.

There is stress which occurs as a result of an event . Those of us with the usual body and brain responses can cope with this. There is long-term stress which is harder to cope with and needs resilience. There is chronic stress out of our control which has an effect on our mental state and grinds down our resilience. Then there is trauma.
We know that past generations had all of these but they weren’t necessarily recognised.
My grandad’s mental state was altered after a WW2 bomb killed others who he had just been sheltering with in an underground station. From what my mum says he probably had PTSD but it wasn’t recognised.
Some WW1 soldiers with PTSD were executed for cowardice/ desertion. Some survived and came home broken.

And then there are those who through genetics or illness don’t have the normal brain and body responses and need medical help.

The more we understand , the more conditions there will be listed in the DSMs.

And as for the current generation, I don’t envy them at all. Who knows what effects this toxic world will have on them?

Sorry to sound so negative but I think Tony Blair should stick to what he knows.

I completely agree, Scribbles.
It doesn’t bode well for the future society.

Yes it’s a difficult area. In the 1960s my dear dad had what was called a nervous breakdown , (he had ect and thankfully recovered ) However there was a lot of stigma about mental illness my sister and I were bullied and taunted at school ( you’re dads mad was one of the less horrid taunts) My mum had been open about dad having a breakdown whereas my nan had gone round saying he had tonsillitis - I think on balance I’d have preferred it if mum had said tonsillitis ( admittedly 6 months would seem a long time ) - as dad recovered mum developed severe anxiety and my sister anorexia I hated that we were referred to as the nutcases. I was lucky and didn’t suffer from depression but it was an awful time and I was glad when we moved to a different town and I went to work without anyone knowing our history.

This thread just shows how complicated ill mental health can be, and how everyone views it and deals with it in different ways.
Certain people CAN cope whereas others can't, certain people DO develop resilience whereas others don't. It is difficult to understand why that is. The comments here about damage in childhood are interesting, and whether that damage has a later impact. I tried for years to get my head round it all, to no avail, and decided that personally, it's not worth my energies.

I think I mentioned earlier that my father drowned himself. His own father had also killed himself when my father was seven. My father left my mum in 1958 the day she fell pregnant, he couldn't cope with the idea of bringing up a child,(me), because he said he was "depressed". A selfish attitude maybe. Then riddled with guilt, he later drowned himself because he felt he had wasted the opportunity. Some background for me to deal with! No one can say that I don't understand.

Anyway, I never had any counselling, but was interviewed/assessed by a Harley Street psychiatrist as part of a lifelong national survey on health and development. The findings were, "It's a wonder you turned out as normal as you did".
Could I explain how or why I ended up as a cheerful, positive person? I've no idea why I did. Could I advise others how to cope? No way, because they aren't like me.
It's all so complicated, I'm not sure even talking about it at the time would have made any difference. Or even now. I probably suffered deeply inside, I really don't know, but sometimes you just have to get over it, ignore it, move on, if that's how you're made.

That's interesting, Ali23 as I agree with all of your post (in fact it's pretty much what I've been saying all along) but for that reason I think that self-medicalisation of things like stress is something we should avoid, not something we should shut up about unless we are qualified psychologists or psychiatrists.

Ara there is nothing wrong with treating people for depression and other mental illnesses. It's great that we now have the drugs and so on to do so. But that doesn't alter the fact that people opting out of things they find stressful and leaving others to pick up the pieces is selfish.

I've posted before about students who refused to be assessed orally (ie presentations) because it made them anxious. The profession they were hoping to join after graduation needs the ability to present information in various forms, and the professional body that accredited the degree listed presentation skills as a condition of accreditation.

All students find presentations stressful, and when some opted out those who did them would (rightly IMO) complain that it was unfair. I had no choice but to give those who claimed anxiety preferential treatment, as not to do so was 'discriminatory'. That's another example of what I'm getting at. People use feelings of discomfort to opt out of doing things, and don't care about those who have to do them in their stead.

That is not remotely the same as taking anti-depressants or having therapy to deal with a clinical illness, and nobody is saying it is.

I found making presentations at university stressful, I found taking my first assemblies in front of a sea of pupils stressful, many a time I felt physically sick or dizzy, or came out in a red rash, but like Doodledog says, opting out or giving the task to someone else would be unfair and selfish.
TB is right to say, "confront those challenges" and learn from them.

Mental health issues are definitely dreadful when they happen to you or a loved one, but I do think Tony Blair has a point. I wouldn't like to be young with the challenges that young people face today, but we all had our challenges throughout life, just different ones.

I think it's probably the first time I've wholeheartedly agreed with Tony Blair.

Doodledog, my response was to what Tony Blair was quoted as having said. I just think that a publicly influential figure eg Tony Blair should stick to what he knows as he has the public ear and the (toxic) media’s attention. He’s entitled to his opinion. I think he overestimates his own understanding and underestimates his possible impact.

As someone who has lived with depression for 60 years , I do worry about how easy it to be given pils these days.when I started I was told to pull myself together and whilst that was to harsh I did manage to be a high functioning depressive , holding down a good job and raising a family . Nowa days you are smothered with care and it is too easy to give in and be a “deprresed person with all that entails . I do think we should be making children be more resilient especially teenagers who have raging hormones and every day their mood is different . Not every child needs pills, after 30 years on Prozac I can’t get off them, they have wrecked my metabolism and I struggle to lose weight so now that’s another thing to make me depressed . It’s a vicious circle.