Mental Health issues or Challenges of Life?

Thank you Ziggy. I wonder how many people who have 'worked with' 'had experience of', 'been on courses' 'had training' have actually experienced mental health issues.

Galaxy

Indeed. I managed a large organisation for many years. However you are not a unique individual who is immune to all kinds of bias particularly when debating on the internet.

I've always believed that each of us is unique. Are you suggesting otherwise as part of a debate?

Many argue that self-serving bias is an inherent aspect of the human condition. While it's worth acknowledging that while we might use this to navigate life's complexities, those in positions of power within businesses or organisations—and those with an open mind—should surely not exploit it to undermine the peace of mind of others.

Indeed. I managed a large organisation for many years. However you are not a unique individual who is immune to all kinds of bias particularly when debating on the internet.

Galaxy

And some people are so sure of their own truth that they cant imagine for one second that they too may be wrong.

It's not simply an "opinion" or any one person's truth Galaxy. Self-serving bias is a well-established psychological concept.

It has important implications in organisational behavior studies. It falls under several broader categories or frameworks in psychology, particularly relevant to understanding how individuals within organisations make attributions about their, or others, performance. This bias can significantly impact workplace dynamics by influencing employee motivation, leadership effectiveness, and decision-making processes, ultimately shaping the organisational culture and environment.

I tried to simplify the concept previously but I seem not to have conveyed that it is part and parcel of the knowledge used to run organisations and businesses.

Kate1949

Physical and mental abuse as a child stays with you. It's not easy to get rid of it with talking therapy or lifestyle changes (in my experience). With respect, some people have no idea.

Agreed

You've made a very good point MissA and escaped.

I've been a single parent 2 times around, in a way.

It was much easier the first time around, mentally, I'd say.

You just sent them to school and they came home afterwards.

Maybe a friend round for tea every now and then, or a walk down the beach.
No driving, no expectations.
Just "yeah, they can come if they want to".

Perhaps yes, MissAdventure.
Although it could be the huge expectations that today's generation have. What they think they should automatically have - or should have achieved by then in life.
It's certainly escalating.

Perhaps people had more/less to feel happy with years ago?
A week in a caravan, nobody the slightest bit bothered about expensive clothes, or the "best" school.
One stocking and one big present for children, no endless adverts telling you, "you're worth it".
No emails, or texts,or playmates or activities...

And some people are so sure of their own truth that they cant imagine for one second that they too may be wrong.

"The "your" was plural and general Iam. There certainly have been posts blaming someone who was ill for the time they needed away from what sounds like a toxic workplace. That sounds like anger and misplaced blame to me.

This need to blame the victim also happens when women get physically attacked. It's understandable that people want a world where they can feel safe and that it is our behaviour that keeps us safe. After all, all we can control is our own behaviour. The corollary of this is that people then need to believe that if things go wrong it must be the fault of the person who is damaged. This way of looking at things is called the self-serving bias.

Unfortunately, the world is not always safe. The people in charge – those running organizations, businesses, and even those we love – do not always behave as they should, The self-serving bias does not look for the truth but for what "feels" logical. But obviously, this isn't true. Some grow up learning how to be aware of the tendency. Some never do.

request a MH assessment if they feel the patient needs to be taken on by the MH services.
As it should be. If the GP has concerns.

I think this discussion is coming to an end, but one additional piece of information:
When our generation was in our 30s and was asked whether we were happy with our lives, 37% of us said yes. Today's generation is less happy than their predecessors, so that's an awful lot of people teetering on the edge of mental sadness or depression. Of course, a new thread would be needed to work out all the reasons for this, but I believe, (because that's the way I am, and I do have some understanding of mental illness), that more people today, who are just experiencing the normal ups and downs of life, need to take personal responsibility, think positive and count their blessings. Otherwise, how will things end up for the next generation of 30 somethings?

melp1

Totally agree with him, far too many people claiming benefits for mental issues.

Is it because people can't get to see a GP, they then get worse until they simply can't cope?

The point is that most GP's do not have much training in MH but they can prescribe medications, offer short term counselling, prescribe for physical activities and request a MH assessment if they feel the patient needs to be taken on by the MH services. This triage system then requires the MH team to take a full assessment to decide if the person is unwell enough to be offered 6 weeks within the MH service.. They need to be quite floridly unwell to be taken on.. There are negligible numbers of places in hospital available, some day hospitals and RMN outreach services trying to cope with the number of patients already within the service.. and dwindling resources.. When I was a CPN i had 30 patients on my caseload.. And there lies the problem of people being signed off with MH illness by GPs really.. How enduring are the problems and do patients actually have MH illness..

I haven’t had anger triggered. I have a different point of view than you on this subject.

Iam64

Understaffing affects everyone. The point being made is that several posters who clearly do understand what mental illness is, have experience of one colleague who appears to take advantage of good terms and conditions,

How can anyone truly know another person's medical history without access to their medical records?

It's one thing to suggest that someone being off work due to illness contributed to or triggered your personal anger. I can understand the difficulty of placing blame properly when your own employment may be at stake.

However, it's a very different issue to claim that those who are harmed by others' failure to provide sufficient staffing are, themseves, responsible for that harm, as well as the subsequent hurt experienced by other team members.

I have never taken a day off work due to my mental health, despite some days barely being able to function. Looking back, I didn't do myself any favours.

IMO, that attitude starts young. If a child learns that being ill means lying on the sofa with the TV on and snacks on demand instead of double maths or a cross-country run, and then that dropping out of a friend's teaparty when an invitation to something more interesting comes along, and later that they can get qualifications despite opting out of the bits they don't like, then why are they suddenly going to start considering the impact on other people?
It certainly does start young these days. My DGD tells me of children in her school who occasionally have a "mental health day" off school to avoid certain classroom challenges. I assume the school allows this for fear of forcing any child into a situation which might tip them over the edge.

Please don't stop contributing to the thread Doodledog. You, me and others, including TB, are not suggesting that mental illness is not real nor devastating. We are talking about those who self-diagnose to use it as an excuse.

Totally agree with him, far too many people claiming benefits for mental issues.

Is it because people can't get to see a GP, they then get worse until they simply can't cope?

Understaffing affects everyone. The point being made is that several posters who clearly do understand what mental illness is, have experience of one colleague who appears to take advantage of good terms and conditions,

I think certain people aspire to a more senior job role, apply for and get the job, then find they just can’t cope. (Calendargirl)

It seemed that the focus had shifted from blaming the individual to recognizing that the department is - as it reads - constantly understaffed.

Yet still, you desperately want to blame the individual worker instead of those whose responsibility it was to ensure adequate staffing.

This is a reminder to how witches were burned when crops failed or cows died!

Kate1949

Physical and mental abuse as a child stays with you. It's not easy to get rid of it with talking therapy or lifestyle changes (in my experience). With respect, some people have no idea.

Some people do have no idea but with respect, the focus here has been TB’s comparison between mental illness and tge difficult feelings we all have to manage at times in our lives.

The evidence is clear about the life long impact of physical, mental, emotional, sexual abuse. There’s an excellent book The Body Keeps the Score about the physical never mind mental or emotional impact throughout our lives.

PoliticsNerd

I, too, am familiar with this scenario. Unfortunately, I have firsthand experience with the devastating effects of depression. Dickens' poignant descriptions of the condition and its impact on a person's sense of self are hauntingly accurate.

I also agree with Iam that many individuals have witnessed colleagues repeatedly taking time off due to mental health issues. However, it's essential to acknowledge Doodledog's crucial point: the actual cause of this problem lay, and often lies in underlying workplace issues, in this case understaffing. This, rather than the individuals themselves, is often the root cause of the pressure and stress placed on colleagues.

It's essential to distinguish between those who are mentally ill and the often-inadequate workplace systems that can exacerbate their conditions. While individuals who become mentally ill are not responsible for poor workplace systems, it's clear that systemic problems, such as understaffing, can play a significant role in the development of mental health issues.

I'm not sure that in this case the underlying problem was understaffing. That certainly contributed to making my experience of my colleague's absence unbearable, but the underlying systemic problem was more as Calendargirl suggests - that she was employed to do something for which she was temperamentally unsuitable, and her response to that was to put her own comfort first and stay at home, rather than to accept that she might be better off in a different role. She openly stated that she'd be happier doing something else, but that she didn't want to take a cut in salary. Understaffing meant that her work fell to me, but wasn't responsible for her attitude.

IMO, that attitude starts young. If a child learns that being ill means lying on the sofa with the TV on and snacks on demand instead of double maths or a cross-country run, and then that dropping out of a friend's teaparty when an invitation to something more interesting comes along, and later that they can get qualifications despite opting out of the bits they don't like, then why are they suddenly going to start considering the impact on other people?

I repeat - none of that is to suggest that mental illness is not real, or that those who suffer from it are malingering. I don't believe that at all. I am agreeing with TB (and others) that despite the fact that people do suffer from mental illness there are also those who see discomfort as illness and pass the buck to others.

I don't know how else I can say that, so this will be my last post on this thread.

Physical and mental abuse as a child stays with you. It's not easy to get rid of it with talking therapy or lifestyle changes (in my experience). With respect, some people have no idea.

Doodledog is right if her claim is that acting for others' benefit is therapeutic. Current selfishness is a disease of society. Obviously D does not suffer from it whereas her ex colleague did.

The difference between clinical 'mental illness' and unhappiness is that the latter is known to the sufferer as unhappiness, whereas clinical 'mental illness ' carries no self -awareness and originates as brain lesion which may be related to a physical lesion. elsewhere in the body.

It's currently unknown whether or not life events always are part cause of clinical 'mental illness.' Clinicians nowadays treat 'mental illness' with medication whereas such conditions as neurotic anxiety or personality malfunction like what Doodledog describes in her ex colleague can sometimes be treated by talking cures or adaptations to life style.

Neurotic people can get a lot of help online and self diagnosis is useful for sufferers who can evaluate the sources of the advice. Similarly in the old days when people read books some books of self help were useful.

These last two days my own GP is working in concert with me as to blood pressure care .Due to my recent duties caring for my terminally sick dog and his home euthanasia last Friday my BP went very high, so the | GP agreed with my choice to delay increasing medication until I have rested from my emotional exhaustion. Patients are encouraged to take responsibility for themselves as is appropriate to the patient.