::POA's - do we really need them?

Please do Franbern .

Witzend

AGAA4

Bank accounts are frozen when a person dies to prevent fraudulent access.
That means no direct debits would be paid.

But AFAIK the financial P of A becomes invalid on death anyway.

Correct. POA is for the living. Wills are for the dead.

Financial POA for my mother was put in place about nine years ago - my father was terminally ill, and he wanted to make sure my brother and I would be able to help my mother in the future if it became necessary.
He did it himself, and it wasn't too expensive.

Until last year, we didn't need to use it. I did a weekly online drop for Mum, and she had shared her bank details with me so that I could deal with any online banking that was necessary, but that was it.
However, last February she suddenly started declining rapidly, both medically and physically, culminating in her having to move into a care home later in the year, and her house having to be sold. This is when the POA has become invaluable. Without it, it would have been a lot more difficult even to organize her finances so that her care home fees can be paid.

Even with POA, some companies still make you jump through rings before you can use it with them (for example estate agents who insist on seeing the original POA, even though banks are happy to access it via a one-time code!), but it is still a lot easier than it would have been without the POA.

We didn't have the health and welfare POA until very recently. Luckily, we saw the way things were going and managed to get it signed and witnessed on a good day, while Mum had capacity to understand what she was signing.
That said, so far we haven't needed to use that particular POA, but sooner or later it might be needed.

The thing is, your children need to understand that POAs are not something that you can risk putting off until you need them. Health can change very quickly, and you could go overnight from being fit and healthy to no longer having having the mental capacity necessary for POAs to be made.

" they could and would be able to continue with my financial arrangements. Virtually all my regular payments are on Direct Debit, so there would be no change there. "

Just to add to my post above - when it came to suddwnly needing to move large amounts of money, and quickly, we discovered that it wasn't quite as easy as we had imagined, even with POA. I don't think we would have got away with doing this illicitly - I suspect that the banks' systems would have picked up on this unusual activity and queried it.

butterandjam

Retread

For me the question is - why does a PoA have to be done “officially”? Why can one not just write out a similar document that sets out permission and wishes, sign and date it and have it witnessed and kept safely for when it is needed? I don’t understand why the Government has to be involved. It feels like yet another money making scheme …

Because anyone can fake a document.

POA conveys huge power, can be literally life and death.

It has to be registered at the Office of the Public Guardian as official proof it's genuine, when it was made, by whom, to whom etc.

Official proof of house purchase is recorded at the Land Registry; and birth, marriage and death are recorded at the General records Office ( E and W) .

What about Wills …? Are they recorded in a central government register?

Of course documents - including “official” documents get forged. Fraud is nothing new.

watermeadow

I did both POAs a few years ago but there was a small mistake in one, someone wrote her address in one place but missed it in another. It was returned to me and I would not repeat the long complicated process so it was not registered.
I don’t think this matters, it tells my family what I intended.

Your family might know what you intended, it doesn't mean an official body will act accordingly without the power of attorney being in place.

Our Wills are lodged at the probate registry. This costs about £23.
Saves worrying about losing them or paying a solicitor.
Details can be found through Gov.uk.

We did our own. It didn't seem complicated and there is lots of guidance.

This is what Martin Lewis says:
www.moneysavingexpert.com/family/power-of-attorney/#:~:text=Martin%20Lewis%3A%20%22I%20think%20Power,This%20is%20really%20important.

watermeadow

I did both POAs a few years ago but there was a small mistake in one, someone wrote her address in one place but missed it in another. It was returned to me and I would not repeat the long complicated process so it was not registered.
I don’t think this matters, it tells my family what I intended.

It might tell your family what you intend but as it is not legally registered that means your family will have no legal rights to make decisions on your behalf if you cant make them. It really does matter!

Franbern Both POAs are crucial if the time comes when they are needed. I really hope your daughters agree and that you can get both in place asap 💐

We did POA for my husband after he had a major stroke. As well as damaging him physically it left him with speech and memory problems. He is also unable to sign his name now as his writing hand is paralysed. It was straightforward to do on the gov.uk site.

I took out both powers of attorneys in 2020. My daughter and son in law are my attorneys .Both are fully aware of my wishes. By having both powers of attorney they can inforce my wishes if I am not capable of doing so . Especially the health one . As they know I don't want to be kept alive if I have no quality of life . Having it all legally documented makes it easier for them and I have peace of mind .

POA's need to be registered and it can take up to 6 months these days for it to go through the necessary stages, and you have to pay.

KKOB

POA's need to be registered and it can take up to 6 months these days for it to go through the necessary stages, and you have to pay.

All the more reason to do it before it’s actually needed, then.

After far too much experience of dementia, dh and I have added paragraphs to our H&W Ps of A that read roughly,

‘If I should develop dementia, or any other condition where I am unable both to care for myself, and speak, with full mental capacity, for myself, then I emphatically do not want any life-saving or life-prolonging treatment. I ask for palliative care only.’

I think everyone should have them including your daughters - no one knows what life will bring and a stroke or accident or any number of other unexpected challenges can occur in a moment. I think they are now calleed Lasting Power of Attorney LPAs........or do POAs still exist?

We applied for both PoA’s for my father aged 98, who was mentally very well although needing care for his physical health and they took over a year to arrive, and by then it was too late because he had died.

Meetings with a social worker in dads last few weeks as he had been deemed by the hospital to lack capacity by then for somethings although we disagreed. And because of the lack of the POA’s was embarrassing for him and for us. The social worker agreed with us and dad what needed to be done, and really her time could have much better spent elsewhere with someone who genuinely needed her time and expertise.

It also meant that we had to fund some things from our own bank accounts that could have been funded directly from his bank account. This wasn’t a problem for us, but others may not have the spare cash to do this.

Learning from this, we have PoA’s for each other in place. It wasn’t expensive to do it ourselves, although one has to be careful with the paperwork.

Hope this helps.

crazyH

I am right in the middle of doing my POA - (1) Property and Financial and (2) Health and Welfare.
It only costs £92 each , but much more if you use a Solicitor
I have 3 children.

Please can you tell me what method you are using as I don't want to involve a solicitor. I understand you need to register the POA?

My son & daughter in law have POA’s for my finance & just waiting for the health one to be finished. Having seen the mess that one friends family got in without POA & then seeing how another's son was talked down to by medics until he said he had POA. The medics couldnt change fast enough when he said that so we decided on these two examples to get POA done as soon as possible. Just hoping that the health one is through soon as at my age (80) no one knows what the future holds. So would say get POA’s done as soon as you can.

Medical emergencies, leaving one disabled, can happen in seconds regardless of how fit you might be today. POA is definitely necessary, in my opinion.

Absolutely do POAs, it’s not a question of you trusting your daughters, a POA ensures that whatever happens your wishes are known, you do not know the future, the fact that parents were compus mantis
into old age does not mean you will be, your daughters no matter how ‘professional’ they are in their careers are not correct in this matter. I speak as one who has had to deal with this matter for three different relatives.

Maybe they can read replies as it's politely a must to-do!

If ambulance is called for you after eg. A Fall , sometimes it's not essential to go to hospital but paramedics have no choice but to take you unless someone with poa for health speaks up
... it saved our mum 3 times from going unnecessarily after falls as we understood it was caused by low bp. ( she lost lots of confidence each time she went in after falls) and of course you are there at least a week each time, being assessed, then the medication side being dealt with even if no changes.
Please do.
I feel for paramedics who see it over and over again when you don't have a poa for health

Personally, I feel it is essential. A friend of mine was in a position where her sister was left without capacity after her ex tried to strangle her. She was then unable to care for her children, control her finances or make her own health decisions. Sadly, her family without a POA were not allowed to make decisions for her and it is up to the Office of the Public Guardian to make those decisions for her. This is very time consuming and the family are not always happy for those decisions.

Delene100

crazyH

I am right in the middle of doing my POA - (1) Property and Financial and (2) Health and Welfare.
It only costs £92 each , but much more if you use a Solicitor
I have 3 children.

Please can you tell me what method you are using as I don't want to involve a solicitor. I understand you need to register the POA?

Best way is using the gov.uk site. Very straightforward. Do it online, print off forms, carefully complete (very clear instructions walk you through it) send it off to be registered and wait for the papers to be returned. Took about a month for us.

AGAA4

Bank accounts are frozen when a person dies to prevent fraudulent access.
That means no direct debits would be paid.

This is irrelevant on a post about lasting powers of attorney, (LPAs) because they end on the death of the donor. It is advisable for all adults to have LPAs, as even young adults could have an accident leaving them incapacitated and incapable of managing their affairs.

A friendo fmine fell in her yard and was found unconsious. the ambulance took her to hospital and a Deprivation of Liberty Safeguard was taken out by the local aurhority, so that the hospital could treat her. In tehory the
DoLS ensures people who cannot consent to their care arrangements in a care home or hospital are protected if those arrangements deprive them of their liberty. Arrangements are assessed to check they are necessary and in the person’s best interests. Representation and the right to challenge a deprivation are other safeguards that are part of DoLS. this went on far too long and the only people who could over ride the situation were the relative with Lasting Power of attorney Welfare.