Moving to Portugal

Of course a lot will depend on how happy you are in your current life to start with. I don't think it's down to oomph or bravery or a can do attitude. If you leave a life you love, you will have a lot more to miss. In my case, the first year was exciting and new and I could see all the positives in my new home and gloss over the negatives. Living abroad was certainly a good life experience, as when I got home I started to appreciate the positives here too.

Granjura. Well said, your post Wed. 22. 19.07. If somebody had run a video before me and shown all that we would go through, I would have run a mile.
All my own fault. I went on holiday and bought a view! I didn't even see inside the house.
I must sound stupid, but I'm not. We were in the throes of selling our house and still had 2 others mortgage free, so I can't be that stupid, can I?
But I saw that view, and fell in love with it.
Fortunately, when I had had enough after 5 years there were other people who wanted that view, so we didn't loose any money.

Argh Petra- you are not the only one- it's those rose tinted glasses that do it, and programme like 'a house in the sun' etc. And I am absolutely sure you are NOT stupid at all- but perhaps, like me, your heart sometimes rules your head- for me, I am so lucky I know, it's always turned out well.

I do appreciate your comment Anno- but I can assure you I would not have made my post if I had not witnessed too many stories of heart over heads with a move abroad- which have turned into absolute disaster- for one reason or other, and lots of money lost and even bankruptcy. Some parts of France are so idyllic in the Summer- but are absoltuely diserted and freezing cold in winter, with lots of wind and snow (thinking of people we know who bought in the Creuse) - great for holidays, but living there a different kettle of fish. There is a good reason why alcoholism is rife among some expat communities, and isolated parts/rural locations.

Of course there are some wonderful stories too- but the %age of disasters is signficant. Being aware of this may be helpful in making a decision.

maggiemaybe- excellent post too. Too often, people move abroad to escape problems- and after the excitement of the first couple of years, the very same problems come to bite them in the 'derrière'- be they personal, or be they 'political/cultural'.

One thing which I have always found disconcerting, or hilarious... is how some people move to France or italy because 'England's gone to the dogs' - and then find it is not much better in the new location, and perhaps worse. And even more 'funny' is how the behaviour their deplore in the UK re some foreigners, is exactly the one they adopt abroad (eg live in separate communities, shop via UK internet sites, even for food (UK vans deliver all over the popular FRench expat areas, week in week out)- buy kitchens and bathrooms from UK and get someone in white van from uk to deliver and install (not employing local shops or labour), speaking a different language and not learning the local one, going to their own Church and activities/clubs and not integrating, etc. (not all indeed- but perhaps too large a %ion- creating resentment and anti-foreign feelings).

It has been said that many leave their brains behind at Dover when it comes to buying property abroad. Bit guilty of that myself especially as my Spainsh was limited at the time. Luckily it has worked out well partly because they are not used to British pensioners here so no one tried to rip us off.
Going back to what I miss: being able to sort difficult situations on the telephone, something I am good at in Britain, British theatre, the variety of food especially in London (Asturias are so proud of their food but I find it a bit uninspiring and very meat based) and UK newspapers. Online doesn't do it. A few trips back each year sorts everything out and we then return to Spain, where we are learning so much about the country's history, geology and people's lives in general. Broadens your horizons.

granjura I so agree with your posts of 13.24.12 and 13.30.35. We had a holiday apartment in a small Portuguese village for a few years and it became exactly as you describe. We had, briefly, contemplated moving into the apartment out there, but are so glad that we didn't.

The village became more and more taken over by German and British ex-pats and, for a short while, even had a Cornish Pasty shop! The amount of alcohol consumed was unbelievable - boredom. Jobs were/are only seasonal or part-time and there was no entertainment - no cinema, theatre, college courses, library etc. No shops, apart from a newsagent (English papers at 4 times the UK price), grocery and souvenir shop. Erratic bus service.

Very few bothered to learn the language and only dealt with other ex-pats for business.

The villagers, who were quite poor by our standards, very happily sold their tiny, dark cottages for stupid prices, that a few years earlier would have been beyond their imagining, and laughed all the way to the bank - and then bought their own upmarket abodes!

On yes, forgot to mention the bureaucracy! If you think it's bad here, try Portugal!!!

We visited friend who lived in a ghetto (well that's what some would call it if it were immigrants in Britain) in Calasparra. Couldn't wait to get away. Funny how, for some, there's one rule for British immigrants abroad and another for those in Britain! Ooh Dr. Getting a bit political but it does seem prejudiced.

They are NOT immigrants- but expats ;) of course.

I must say, i never had too many problems with any red tape, in fact i found people very helpful, the fact that we spoke Portuguese and were continuing employment for 18 local people 10 out of season may have helped.
DD also went to the local village school and we made a point of using local suppliers as much as possible.
I got pulled up quite rudely on this last week for commenting that we now have an M&S here, and therefore I can indulge in items i have missed, I have just shopped with DD and DGS in our local Belgian supermarket, they have a British section but really don't feel the need to use it.
Damned if we do and damned if we don't.

Melanietarot I have been living on the Silver Coast between Lisboa and Porto for 7 years. All the cons people have mentioned I have been through. I fell badly last year and needed hospital.treatment and an operation and it was all excellent. We brought my elderly Mum with us and obviously she needed medical assistance at times so I do think learning to speak Portuguese is very important. Last year my husband and I split up 3 weeks after my op so I was left to cope with only one arm and my Mum in a home for the elderly where she died 3 weeks later. Would I go back to England now I am 70 and on my own? No way. Yes I do miss my large family but they are only a flight away. Sometimes I think I miss the English shops but so many of them deliver abroad now or I can stock up on my visits to England. Bring you cats by all means because they are not likely to come to any harm . My two Irish Setters are now 11 and 10 and they love it here. Personally I do not think Granjura was being self important in what she said because they are all things many people do not consider before moving abroad. There are expats on the Silver Coast but not like the hordes in the Algarve. The Portuguese people are friendly and love it if you can speak a few words of their language. I have many Portuguese friends who have been such a help to me over the past year. If you have done your homework and are sure it is the life you want come on out and enjoy it.

To sum up:
Learn the language. It's a long haul but enjoyable.
If possible keep a dwelling in the UK.
Embrace the differences but don't feel guilty about British things you miss. Foreigners love our shops too!
Don't do it because you think the grass will be greener. It may be but you know the old cliche: you take yourself with you. This isn't an escape, it's a change and an adventure.
You don't have to ditch possessions. Some are able to be ruthless but we needed time to evaluate what we wanted to keep. We still have stuff in storage but the pile is getting smaller and will be gone by October. Honest!
Talk, talk, talk with the locals. You'll learn a lot.
Don't be scared off by horror tales regarding bureaucracy. Yes, it can be a pain but go with the flow. We put off registering our car here as we were told it was a nightmare and would cost €1200. As it was it was all done in two days and cost €350 because we were able to do it ourselves.
All the very best of luck.

Wilks has got it just right, I had forgotten about the illegal matriculation of cars, we bought a car on arrival but i do remember friends complaining about it.
Just relax and enjoy the whole adventure if you are unsure of something ask a local.

Great posts and excellent advice Daisyboots, Wilks, MiniMouse and Felice. Thanks.

Someone said to me 'the first 20 years are the worst' when trying to live in another country. I found this to be true. I was terribly homesick at first but then 'my England' of then has gone anyway. I missed the language but now speak and read so much English each day that I don't miss it.
What did happen was that living in a German family- and having a German family now of my own, used up all my feelings of wanting to see other countries etc.
I sit contendedly home now and go to Lake Constance or Berlin on holiday, visit my sister in law in Yorkshire and listen to all my friends going away to distant parts of the world and have absolutley no wish to travel.
We meet up with other mixed German/ British couples and all feel the same. Germany is full of Itailans, Turks and Greeks who would never leave.
That is the difference to going to live abroad as a young person compared to going as an old person. That is often a tragedy waiting to
happen.

Margaret, I was 19 when I 'hit' London- 45 years ago.

Granjura leave it be now. No doubt doubt your knowledge of Portugal and bili gual skills leave you to believe that you are the ,b and end all, of Portuguese culture. Portuguese people are lovely even though it is now a very poor country. You are assuming this lady has no common sense. Back off if this lady needs your help she will no doubt consult you, your negativity is not helpful.

Finding it all rather interesting. I watch some of those 'home or away' type of programmes and often wonder what actually happens when people do move abroad.

Ooh, MargaretX, don't put older people off. I was 64 when we moved and OK, the first year was a bit difficult but that was partly because I had just retired and missed my job. Also I missed friends and all my interests. And of course my language skills then restricted my social interaction. I agree with what you said about holidays though. The Iberian peninsular is rich and fascinating and I doubt I have enough time left to explore it without spending hours in the air going to far flung places!

Of the people I have met over the last ten years, I would say that roughly half of them have gone back for a variety of reasons; mostly missing family, insufficient financial resources, boredom, unrealistic expectations, lack of French and a realisation of how difficult it is to earn an income from a small business here.
The rest seem to be living here more or less happily and muddling along pretty well (including many who moved after retirement). In a crisis most people seem to be pretty well supported by the ex-pat community and the local community.
It is just life; sometimes good, sometimes OK and sometimes bad. Bit like living anywhere really.
I suspect the OP is long gone.

Thank God I'm not risk averse and that I'm always up for an adventure, otherwise I'd never have 'upped sticks' with my husband to move to the UK from South Africa 13 years ago. And before anyone says "but it's not foreign" believe me, it is, as in "just because you speak the language, doesn't mean you've cracked the code".

In the past 13 years I've experienced all of the above (good and bad), but all its done is taught me resilience and strengthened my resolve. And for the rest, as mamie says, you muddle through.

Besides, no one can say how things will work out for anyone else, because as the saying goes "Wherever you go, there you are". In other words, you take yourself with you , and no two people are the same.

tigger, I've never been to Portugal, bar a 2 weeks holiday in Madeira about 10 years ago. So no, I would not ever claim to be a Portugal specialist, at all. But I have here in Switzerland many Portuguese friends- who are here because theings are so dire with unemployment and all there. They are caught between the need to have a job and a future, and missing back home, thir family, culture, the weather, etc. One youngster I know moved back after 5 years here, as he missed home so much- and then came back again 15 months later as he could see he would never get a decent job there.

I'd love to go and visit, Lisbon and the North and then maybe have 1 week in the Algarve at the end.

My comments were not at all about Portugal, but about personal experiences meeting and talking to 100s of expats in France, Spain and Italy- and how difficult some have found it- especially in latter years. Won't go into detail, but some of the stories are heart-rendering. Never tried to put off melanietarot- but having met so many who moved on a whim and as said above, for a view' with those deep rose tinted glasses...

If anything, it has led to great posts giving excellent advice, by others- so no harm done. If this thread did put anyone off- then I'd say 'good' - because it would indicate that those aspects had not truly been taken on board.

Well said, granjura. With all the horrors that we went through, it came down to, it just wasn't home.
My heart would swell when I saw the white cliffs of Dover.

Good post, gk. Resonates with me. Also Mamie's comment re. muddling through. Quite.

Nice to see you dipping in again, by the way.

Funnily enough Petra's post made me realise that I don't have the "white cliffs of Dover" thing anymore. France is definitely home now.