Smart Energy Meters

I have read the site but I still remain deeply sceptical. To me it is all whizzy technology and completely lacks any consideration of the human factor.

In the current situation with a modern central heating programmer, thermostatic radiator valves and proper insulation it is easy to minimise energy consumption and use it efficiently, but what proportion of the population actually do that? Drive around of an evening and houses have all their curtains open and lights on all over the house, go in many of them and in freezing temperatures outside the inside is so hot that they are opening windows to cool them and walking round in T shirts.

Look at this site www.ovoenergy.com/guides/energy-guides/the-average-gas-bill-average-electricity-bill-compared.html
It gives average energy costs for three sizes of house. We have what they would define as a large house. It is 550 years old and listed, which restricts what we can do to make it more efficient, no double glazing for example. Nevertheless our heating bills are around, or just below the figure quoted for a medium house, because we have done all we can with insulation with a modern heating system with controls, which we use, and we have a warm comfortable house.

Are all the people not using energy efficiently, hence these high bills going to suddenly become super energy efficient, responding to and operating every subtle tweak of the energy controls and changes. I really do not think so.

Hi again, M0nica: SmartEnergy is a promotion vehicle and, as such, its claims may have to be taken with a pinch of salt. However, the smart grid is a very live concept in the UK, EU and worldwide; and smart meters do seem to be a necessary step in the creation of a smart energy grid. If you google smart grid, there is plenty of heavyweight sources including the UK government. This is a summary from the EU which covers the ground:

ec.europa.eu/energy/en/topics/markets-and-consumers/smart-grids-and-meters

The smart grid was news to me and I was unaware of this background to the installation of smart meters. I am not sure why SmartEnergy doesn't explain more.

Yes, I read that sentence and thought it meaningless.

SmartEnergy are an organisation formed to promote smart meters, so they are obviously only going write good things about smart meters and not mention any of the queries. They are behind the 'Controlling Gaz and Leccy campaigns, which I have heard on the radio and I presume also advertise on television.

It is in fact a beautiful site, well designed, just the right typeface to give the right modern go-getting image it wants to promote smart meters, but the text is an insult to the intelligence of anyone who reads it. Lots of short empty statements, like the one above with no back-up material at all of any kind to explain or justify their statements. Even if you drill down deeper into the site all you get is claims of what a smart meter makes possible without any explanation of how.

This site is a triumph of presentation over content.

Hi M0nica: My information was mainly SmartEnergygb, as you saw from the link. Maybe I have mis-interpreted its message but it is the organisation charged with promoting the roll-out of the smart meters so I assume its information is correct.

It said: 'Smart meter technology is a crucial step towards a smart energy grid'.

If that is the ultimate aim, perhaps the monitor is a new toy to help persuade us that it is worthwhile to have smart meters fitted. Judging from the comments above, SmartEnergyGB still has work to do.

Why is it that we were given a smart energy monitor about five years ago but still haven't had a smart meter fitted?

Cunco, with due respect, I have read your link but think that much of what the site says is what has already been said and contradicted on this thread.

Smart meters are all about domestic energy distribution and getting accurate bills without the need for meter readers and home visits. They may at some point integrate with solar or photovoltaic systems installed on people's roofs, but the main supply of green energy from wind farms, solar farms, hydro-electricity etc is through through the national grid and has nothing what so ever do with companies giving end users like us accurate bills for our home energy consumption.

When I change my energy tariff, as I have done today, whether any potential new energy supplier can tie into my presently unusable smart meter is the last thing I am thinking about. It is price I am interested in and nothing else.

It seems that smart meters are a step towards creating a smart grid which will help government and energy suppliers manage our energy needs. It will also allow 'green' energy sources to be integrated more easily in future. I suspect there is a degree of hope that 'green' energy sources will become more significant. Perhaps this is why government, since 2011, has pushed the idea of smart meters, despite questions in 2014 from the Public Accounts Committee as to the cost-benefits of the £11bn investment.

While the advantages to us consumers are widely touted, I suspect that we are mainly a cog in the smart grid machinery. The EU has said that we should introduce smart meters by 2020 unless there is an economic reason not to do so. Germany found such an economic reason but, it seems, the UK didn't.

This was all news to me until I googled the subject recently. This link talks about the smart grid:

www.smartenergygb.org/en/the-bigger-picture/britains-smart-grid

A sense of humour is often useful as well

Information is available for everybody and we all have our own spheres of specialist knowledge. Cleverness doesn't come into it.

I'm sure you're much cleverer than I am M0nica at analysing energy costs. I bow to your superior knowledge, place myself in the 'less organised' group, and will go away and play with my nice shiny meter.

BadenKate I had all the information. I used to work in the building services industry. What really reduces energy consumption is insulation, LED bulbs, efficient controls on central heating systems, properly used, and good energy housekeeping.

Smart meters are merely the icing on the cake. We had an 'Owl' on the wall for several years before we had a smart meter, as most people I know did. We had already honed our consumption. I think most careful consumers are well aware how much power different appliances use. That is why we had our towel rail plumbed into our gas central heating system.

We don't have one. Mostly because our energy supplier failed to keep 3 appointments to fit it. So now not bothered. But, what about the meter reading jobs that will be lost?

Also, currently the energy supplier from our previous house owes us £££, but apparently can't find a digital mechanism to repay us?? Cheques don't work any more? We can't be credited because we are no longer customers!?
DH on to it daily!

I think your black and white vision of energy consumers is rather limited, M0nica. I have a pretty good idea of energy usage around the home, but some things have surprised me. For example, we are always told that leaving things on standby is extravagant, and yet looking at the energy that is used by them these days with reasonably new electrical items such as TVs, computers, printers etc, they use virtually no power at all. However, the heated towel rail which I hadn't really thought about uses 2p/hour - so now I only have it on during the winter (although I do like nice warm towels ). Maybe also it's my background as a scientist - I like as much information as I can get so that I can process it myself.
I'd also point out that we are all paying for these anyway, whether we have them or not, so why not just try them. As the person said who fitted mine - if you decide you don't want to use the information, you can just put it in the back of the cupboard.

Well said Munica

Having said that I think smart meters are a waste of space, they do have one advantage - that you can get an accurate gas reading for the bill every quarter without having to read your meter yourself or wait for a meter reader.

Or this would be an advantage if there was an industry wide standard for smart meters, as it is, get a smart meter, change your gas supplier and the smart meter will not be compatible with your new supplier's computer systems so is useless.

However smart meters are sold to consumers on the basis of increasing our control over our energy use, but I think the average consumer falls broadly into one of two groups; those who have always monitored or controlled their energy use who will gain nothing from smart meters because they already use energy efficiently and those, less organised, who will treat the smart meter as an amazing new gadget for about a fortnight and then just ignore it and continue to use energy without any regard for efficiency.

My df lady friend told him (mistakenly) that it cost 17p to run a smart meter and now he wont have one in his house

Thanks for all these replies. It seems I am not alone in wondering whether smart meters are worthwhile.

I have also found an interesting article from the BBC which is worth a read. It seems Germany, Canada and Australia looked at the cost-benefit analysis of installing smart meters and decided against.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-35894922

We were told we were getting a smart meter. But guess what? they could not fit it because "you haven't got a Vodaphone signal"!!!!!!! At no stage was I asked if I could get a mobile signal here, never mind vodaphone - then to cap it all the idiot engineer said it was all very odd as they had had the same problem with two other houses in our lane the previous week!!! What idiots run a system that A) depends on a good signal and does not confirm with the householder that there is one and B) does not realise that if one house in a rural lane cannot get a signal, the chances are that two others less than 400m away cannot either - so three wasted visits, 2 men in a can each time and WE are paying for this incompetence.

Interesting Badenkate, thank you. I can immediately see the problem: fluctuating energy prices and the need to set a price, probably(?) when the panels are installed. Our world seems to have become filled with things/systems/choices that were originally good ideas but have never been properly thought through, planned and costed which ultimately end up useless and/or with all sorts of costs for someone or everyone! Rant over

Many people installed solar panels so that they could get reimbursed for the extra electricity they fed into the national grid. Which is fine, but the amount they were/are paid is much greater than the normal cost of electricity. This comes from the rest of us when we pay our fuel bill, and those on pre-paid meters for whatever reason pay a higher amount for their electricity. Many of these are among those who have little enough money to live on. It just seems to me that it is morally questionable to make a profit in this way.

Yes, Badenkate been there, read all the bumff, done some research, have plenty of other things to worry about but prefer the precautionary approach where possible. Too many innovations/drugs/pesticides where the harm they do only became apparent many years down the line.....

not sure what point you're making about solar panels as I haven't investigated the economics of them. I thought they were on the way out anyway as the government has removed subsidies??

Good grief, if you're going to be paranoid about health and security..... Do you have a wifi hub or television in your house - or live in an area which is mainly granite? You really need to start worrying about radiation! Do you have any forms of store or loyalty cards - how much information do those relay about you? Mobile phone - well now you're talking about radiation AND security/information. On my list of 'things to be worried about' I'm afraid smart meters are well down. Now solar panels, which involve paying people money which often has come from those on high tariffs on pay as you go - those do concern me on moral grounds!

We have one which tells us each day how much we are spending on electricity and gas. Does make you more mindful of what appliances/ heat you have on!!

I have one, I am on a pay as you go meter, so I can now top up online or by my phone, which is fantastic. The old system was to go outside where the meter was and check how much was still on and try to figure out how long that amount of money would last. Now it tells me how many days I have left to put some more money on it. It's just took me two minutes to top up, brilliant. No more getting dressed, going out in the rain for going for top up.

I'm one of these sad people that read their meters every week, and can judge what we are using so there are no surprises. I can see smart meters may be useful if you've no idea how much energy you use and initially may be fun, but I think basically bit of an expensive gimmick.