Retirement Flats

My in-laws in their 90s still live in their own 3 bedroom Wimpey house. They have put in some things to make life easier but I can't imagine them moving now unless dragged out.
There's a stair lift and they have some home help and a garden girl who keeps the garden neat and tidy. It's mainly lawn and shrubs but they enjoy watching the birds, picking the flowers and hanging the washing out in the breeze.

My own DM moved into a housing association one bedroom flat when she was in her mid 60s. It wasn't specifically sheltered but was ground floor with its own very small garden. Neighbours were mostly younger but she made friends and stayed there until she died 25 years later.
I took her to see some sheltered flats when she was feeling a bit sorry for herself. She was shown around and asked "why is there a kitchen?" the resident replied "for cooking of course" "Oh no I don't want to have to cook!" she was really wanting a hotel.

Like any house move, location is of foremost importance IMO. You can adapt the place to your needs.
I would try to avoid a custom built retirement flat unless you want to be old before your time.

I want to downsize but am certainly not ready for sheltered housing.

I saw so many retirement developments when I worked for Age UK and aprt from the financial side the thing that struck me most was how small the rooms were in all of them. I think some are now being built with bigger rooms, but the resale market is mainly the smaller units.

I asked this question last year and it attracted mostly negative responses with valid reasons especially financial. So much that it changed my outlook on retirement apartments. Not being a very sociable person I particularly dislike the idea of a communal room which shouts Old People's Home! While my DH would love it and would be the star attraction! But yes we are looking to downsize and would actually prefer an apartment to a bungalow as we are not gardeners as long as it had a lift and a small balcony. This will be even more important when just one of us is left.

You do not need to move into a flat. Retirement home developers are beginning to offer bungalows and houses on developments, which means they come with a little bit of land to do gardening and, usually, stairlifts.

Thank you ?

Just going back to NanaPlenty's last post you say you are only in your early 60s but your husband is older. Even if you want to move "sooner rather than later" it can take a while to work out what you need taking into account future possible care needs and current activity needs.

You also say "We need to move financially and to be near my daughter.", so you have made one decision already. Thinking of one needing care or either of you could live on your own if necessary is quite complex. I think I would be list making the pros and cons of that but you certainly seem to have it clarified in your own mind. The block you have looked at sounds as if it fits many of your needs. It is a different way of living by comparison to owning a freehold so don't be afraid to ask about the service charge and how the sink or sinking fund is structured.

You seem to be doing all the right things and like all moves, it's often a timing thing. Good luck, nothing is perfect but you seem to be on the right track.

Sounds ideal Franbern

Adaptability is absolutely everything to me when Im househunting now. I dont want a forced move on top of an episode of incapacity!

We're installing a (nice non clinical looking) wetroom now. Easier to do now IMO than on the back of a stint in hospital! And have bought a place with good wide access and the potential for one floor living should one of us need it.

This is why I get a bee in my bonet about pokey retirement flats. They are so inflexible

With my recent move from my house in London down to Weston super Mare, started looking in my mid-70's over four years ago, I have probably viewed every purpose built block of flats in that town, including the two best Retirement flat blocks.
I did like the idea of the communal lounge in the latter, but I was not prepared for the smallness inside the flats, even the 2-bedroom ones that I looked at. At the larger block the service charge was incredibly high, and, obviously, will increase. Just to warn anyone who thinks they might be eligible for help with this, you will NOT, maintenance charges are excluded from all benefits. The smaller block was cheaper as it was self managed by the residents.
I did not think I would be happy with such small rooms and tiny kitchen - not even sure how I would get on with communal washing machines and dryers.
So, instead I went for a normal 2-bedroom flat, the one I have purchased is close to the town centre, bus stop outside the door, large living room, nice en-suite to main bedroom, and separate bathroom, smallish, but okay kitchen in which I can get slim dishwasher, washing machine, fridge, freezer, etc. I am on the first floor, with good sized balcony, the whole of ground floor are garages. Nice entrance lobby and warm and welcoming public areas. Resident self-managed, which keeps the annual maintenance charge very low, and this includes all water costs and maintenance 24/7 for gas central heating and combi boiler. So, no longer requiring a gardener or a window cleaner (self cleaning windows), paying water bills, lower insurance costs (no building insurance), etc. etc. I reckon I am actually paying less per year than I was at the house.
Been here now nearly three months, absolutely loving living on one level, all rooms so accessible, and feeling so safe. My large living room is actually a better shape and more roomy that the through lounge I had at my house and provides a good sitting area and separate dining area. I am using far less heating here than in the house, it is very warm and cosy.
Plenty of interest groups to join locally via U3A/Women's Institute etc.,etc. so communal lounge not missed. Whereas there is no actual age limit in these flats, most people here are 'older', just a couple of younger people,
I am so pleased I have finally made this move and feel that there is no reason for me ever to have to move again. I have an Alexa machine that I can call out to in an emergency to contact my local living family, and I know that some of the residents do have carers come in regularly to assist them. Rooms are good sized, hoist could easily be installed in main bedroom in required and the en-suite could be made into a wet room.
When time comes, I also know it will be problem in being sold and there is no third party involved in that.

My elderly Dad, 91, has just moved into a three tiered care complex after suffering a nasty fall at home, and spending a couple of weeks in hospital. The system works by offering sheltered apartments for rent, with an emergency alarm system linked to the onsite staff should this be needed. The next level is a residental setting with own room, Tv, meals provided, and assistance to wash and dress plus full housekeeping services included in the weekly price. Then the final tier is a fully staffed nursing home with 24hr qualified nursing care available, including end of life care should it ever be needed. . All this within beautiful grounds on the edge of a small town centre, for those residents who are still able to get out and about independently, or join in one of the social visits to local attractions lead by staff to places like the local cinema, coffee shops, pub, or even to the local clothing shops at times.
Dad had previously looked at moving from his bungalow into a MacArthur stone appartment a few years previously when y step mother was alive, but found it too cramped for space to house all their collectables, s Stepmother being an habitual horder! They were also put off by the small print on the sales contract that stated that a large slice of any resale monies, and a say in the price the property could be resold for would greatly benefit Mac Arthur stone, , so they walked away and emp loyed a gardener and handyperson instead. The major problems begun when neither of them where able to drive anymore. Their home was in a remote area with very little amenities, not covered by any supermarket delivery services, care agencies, bus and public transport firms, or even a village shop,even the local doctors surgery was run on a part time basis with no pavements linking the residential area to the practice itself, access was via a very busy main road used by heavy lorries doing the full speed limit of 50mph, not very safe to be a pedestrian at all.
At least l know tht Dad is being well cared for now, and its a place where he can end his days without ever having to.move home again. The three tiered complex works well in older age, its something that l would want for myself in older age, at least there isnt the risk of having to move to another carehome as your needs change to requiring full nursing care, and familiar faces in staff and the complex community remain with you for the rest of your days.

But I hate when people encourage their shy relatives into these places convinced that they'll suddenly be the life and soul. That's not going to happen!

Would you be persuaded? I know myself and had really good neighbours for the 22 years I lived in my last house but although some were the best and kindest of people none of them became my friends, they were both more than that and less. Added to that many of my friends are closer now than previously and I have an understanding of the community. As I said, one of the attractions of this small block was no communal sitting room. Also, I did look at none retirement flat living. Of the two I liked one was on the first floor with no lift and the other just felt lonely. This really makes me feel that looking early helps.

I just wonder if the rules were different 30 years ago when this was built. I have a feeling they are may have been.

There are changes in life which make a difference to what you are looking for. When you are "we" it is very different to when you are "I". Each decade and illness can change what makes you feel secure too. I go back to what I said. Go and look and ask all the questions.

I can think of nothing worse than being surrounded by other doddery old sods

I think a problem is that you cant really assign a financial value to potential company, yet they do!

But in a block of 40 at least 15 will never go to the social areas or groups. Of the 25 left, you are not guarenteed to find meaningful company in a group so small, but youre "sold" it anyway.

If youre a type who tends to hit it off with neighbours you probably will. But I hate when people encourage their shy relatives into these places convinced that they'll suddenly be the life and soul. Thats not going to happen!

In my case, they need to know about and approve what you are doing (they are the lessors). I totally understand why they need to know what's where and that the person doing it is qualified and insured as they are responsible for the whole building

Thats not because its leasehold
Most leaseholds only require that you maintain to "professional standard" but do not need to know who.

Retirement buildings retain more control because unlike standard leaseholds, they benefit from resale, so the whole time you are there they are basically keeping it ready to resell when you go.

That's a shame kittylester

I was comparing those to the blocks that people are forced to leave if they need any adaptations or get frailer. Which is most retirement flat blocks Ive seen (as I said, heavy internal doors youre not allowed to change, no space for hoists or wheelchairs etc.

Standard (non retirement) leasehold flats can offer longer independance IMO. they are usually bigger and more adaptable than retirement flats and you can have who you want to stay or do care. Some are very secure and well maintained. More expensive short term but cheaper long term. And often just as social but more mixed. You can replicate warden services by chosing one with on site maintenance staff and getting a panic button.

The other issue with retirement flats is they are usually less dementia friendly than standard buildings so people with early dementia cant stay

I think you actually have to understand the charges - keep asking. I didn't get the sinking fund charge until the solicitor had the lease. I should have asked more questions but luckily I was over-estimating not underestimating.

We do not have to use the service company. In my case, they need to know about and approve what you are doing (they are the lessors). I totally understand why they need to know what's where and that the person doing it is qualified and insured as they are responsible for the whole building. I have never lived in a block of flats before so my knowledge is being gained as I go to some extent. I have a feeling that the newer flats have a very different business plan, i.e., using the flat owners as a continued source of income. The government was looking at leases, etc. but it has already been strung out and who knows if they will do it now.

We are having a new main front door fitted. I do know about that. That cost comes from the sinking fund.

Like "Tattoos" Retirement flat threads come up form time to time, so I've posted on them before to say that it was a very positive experience for my late mother. She moved in as a widow aged 80/1, and had seven very happy years living there before she died. I think contemplating such a move if you are a fairly young active early 70s type person might be a mistake as it certainly seemed to me that the majority of the residents were of a certain age. Having said that, there was one lady who my mother was quite friendly with who appeared extremely fit and certainly younger than she was, who took a daily swim in the sea every day, the block being in a great position overlooking the beach, although I did tell mum when she had decided this was the home for her, don't read up on tsunamis

For my mother, after she was widowed she no longer wanted to live in the house anymore, she often got spooked by door knockers later in the day, she did tell me she felt her road in particular was being targeted by men who wanted to tarmac the drive and came round often and she felt uncomfortable about that being on her own. She asked me if I would help her with putting her home on the market and look for a suitable retirement home with her. My parents had moved from Surrey down to the Sussex coast some years before and the demographic in some coastal areas tend to be an older one. Strangely when we went looking for a prospective flat for her, there hardly seemed to be anything on the marke at that time, which is strange because now her town is awash with them, in fact when she died it tooks us well over a year to sell the place, even though it was a really nice flat literally facing the sea. During that interim period between her death and eventually selling the flat, my husband and I would go down and stay there quite often a) to make sure it was always looking spick and span and b) because my husband really loves Sussex, I do too, but to a lesser extent.

So aged 80ish and being a widow my mother slotted into the life well there, she made a couple of really good friends had a very good social life not only through various outings arranged by the social committee but also separately through her church and most importanly she felt safe and secure which was a weight off my mind. The downsides are of course the monthly charges which if I remember rightly even over ten years ago was something in the order of £150. She could easily afford it because she was left with a large sum after she sold the house. I would say I can see where those monies were spent, the common parts of the apartments were very well maintained as was the communal laundry, machines regularly serviced or replaced if they were faulty, gardeners came weekly. Lifts were always fully functioning and they had a lovely house manager who lived on the premises. However, it was up to my brother and I to carry on paying those monthly charges after she died, allbeit through the monies left to us in her will. These properties, because there are such a glut of them on the market with an increasing ageing population often do take a while to sell, so it is down to the beneficiaries of the will to keep up with those payment, so I think that is something to bear in mind. I have heard that some residents around the country have formed their own management committees and taken over the running of their blocks and cut their outgoings considerably. Good for them! When the sale actually went through the management company, who were appalling took, I think well over £1,000, for doing bugger all having written some tranactional clause into the contract. I have often seen that particular company complained about in the financial press and they deserve all the criticism they received.

My mum lived in one of those mentioned by notanan2.

When it came to adding on care, it became a nightmare as it was charged by the hour and if we booked an hour, that is precisely what we got regardless of how mum was that day. There was no leeway at all.

And, as mentioned, it was hugely expensive. I wouldn't recommend them at all.

My aunt, on the other hand, is in a McCarthy and Stone building. That is also expensive but they do not get involved in the care at all. My aunt has as much social life as she chooses. They are quite small though.

I can think of nothing worse than being surrounded by other doddery old sods!

Thanks for that GracesGranMK3- it is early days for us at the moment but one thing I read a while ago is that the charges for having stuff done (extra sockets, new door bell eg) were extortionate. That you had to use the management company and couldn’t diy - have you found that?

Regardless, I’ll be reading this thread with interest to see how you get on and other folks experience.

Wow, some really useful comments everyone. I hear what you are all saying and will definitely find that useful in our property search. I’m only early sixties although my hubby is older. My feeling is that move sooner rather than later as in a few years we won’t even want to move. We need to move financially and to be near my daughter. I also feel that when one of us (hopefully not for some time) they wouldn’t be isolated. The particular block I’ve looked at is near town, very quiet and well kept. It has two large bedrooms and two bathrooms, new fitted kitchen and a beautiful lounge. So although I would be giving up my beautiful bungalow the space would be equally good and we wouldn’t have the worry of outside maintenance going forward. Increasing service charge....definitely something to check out. I spoke to the manager at this particular block and she was very helpful. She said there is a lot the agents don’t tell you but she also said the lease on this block is very good. More to look at and no decision yet!

The council bungalows are a good idea small property with similar age people less cleaning and maintenance in with rent my gran lived in one and was happy dont know if they all gone with wardens though

I'm sure we'll be able to find a bungalow with a small garden. There seem to be plenty of them where DD and DSiL have a family home (they're currently in married quarters but will be going back there in two years time)

I toyed with the idea of looking at retirement flats thinking it might cut out the possibility of having to move again if either one of us is left alone and needing support.

I've gone off the idea now.

It would be a step too far for me, having visited some friends who live in one ( and hate it.)
If you physically have no choice and it’s a last resort, fair enough.

Merlot can you not find a bungalow with a small garden?

I'm not sure what issues you have heard of with the leases of this type of flat Pantglas2. If you can be more specific I can try to answer. I think you have to be careful about all the things we see written about these flats. Service charges will only go up and, as I said, you need to understand the particular sinking fund.

My mother lived in a sheltered housing flat for almost 15 years. She was very happy there. However it was quite small and I wouldn't want to live in it. The service charges went up every year and some residents found it difficult to afford. I think it did contribute to her living until 93.