travel to second homes during the corona virus

Chatting to a French friend this evening I said that I was waiting until the vaccine was available more locally so that I did not have to go into Perigueux. He said that the numbers were rising in the Dordogne and that many people blame the English for going backwards and forwards to England. I don't know any English people doing that, in fact of them, like us are staying well away from everybody.

I just read on Facebook that non EU people were not allowed to travel into France so how can people be travelling back and forth from the U.K.?

MayBee70

I think with everything we do at the moment we have to ask ourselves if we are putting ourselves in danger or are we possibly putting someone else in danger. The rules are there for people that are incapable of working that out. We’re the only ones that can spread the virus.

The rules are there for people that are incapable of working that out.

Exactly so, Maybe. We are all being treated like naughty children.

Well, Sweden entered the epidemic on the basis that as a somewhat conventional and law-abiding nation, people would understand that they should not put themselves or other people in danger, so their were no rules, just advice from the government and it worked - for a while.

Now they are back tracking and becoming more prescriptive newseu.cgtn.com/news/2021-01-13/Why-Sweden-has-abandoned-its-COVID-19-strategy-WYqAcyb3Vu/index.html

The USA was another country that under its last president had a very laissez-faire attitude to COVID rules, that hasn't worked.

The whole 'second home' issue is part of the property ownership fetish that we have in this country. In other countries is is more normal for young people and families to rent their homes, and this does allow for a much easier system of work and living mobility. Of course, rental properties are at best owned by the state, not private landlords and need to have extremely stringent laws regarding the right of those renting.

When I was a child, the biggest ambition of people I knew was to get a Council property (flat or house). To get away from private landlords. People loved their Council properties and when my parents obtained a house on an new built estate in Essex, they were in seven heaven. Those there had little money, but they worked so hard turning those houses and gardens into things of beauty.
When I married in the early sixties, no chance of a council flat for newly weds like us - to prevent going into slum landlord properties we had to try to buy (or rather pay the mortgage companies).
So, I became the first person in my family to do this. The 'Property Owning' democracy it was called. Don't know about others but led to so many years of being very, very hard-up.
Yes, I know - it has worked out in my favour in the long run - but had we all been able to live in appropriate Council properties it could have been so much better. Yet, all my children have had to go along the road of purchasing their own mortgages, etc.
None, would ever have a second home. They will live with owning their own home, but never owning someone else's or, of owning a property and only living in it for weekends and holidays, whilst preventing locals living there.
We each of us, have our own 'moral codes', and this is one that I know none in my family could break

Franbern The idea that the British have a 'fetish' about home ownership is a myth. We stand 44th on the international list of home ownership. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_home_ownership_rat

Countries with higher rates of home ownership than Britian, some much higher, include most of Eastern Europe, the Scandinavian and Baltic countries, most EU countries, including Ireland, France and Spain. We are surrounded by countries with higher home ownership rates than Britain.

The same applies to second homes. The vast majority of British second home owners do not own properties in Britain, they own houses overseas in countries that find providing second homes for British and other nationalities a highly profitable industry that brings employment and money to previously disadvantaged areas.

In some countries, like France, where property prices are a fraction of what they are in Britain, the second home is far more common, and has been for far longer than the UK. In many of the little coastal settlements in Normandy, where are second home is, 90% of the houses are second homes, owned almost entirely by the French - and they are expensive, but move a couple of hundred metres back from the sea and roomy good quality property is well within the ordinary persones income. British and other foreign buyers are very welcome because we tend to buy run down rural properties and renovate them, thus improving the local ousing stock.

I think the situation of second homes abroad is different MOnica. It’s not owning two homes per se that is the problem, but that in Britain, especially on the coast, second home ownership has impacted on communities to such an extent that many seaside villages no longer exist, except as retreats for city dwellers.

The terrace houses that were a young couples first buy are highly priced, only short term holiday rentals are available. Families are without a home so that some people can have two.

But it is not just second home ownership which pushes up the prices of properties and impacts on the coastal community. It is all the retirees moving into the area. Along the south coast like Sussex, Dorset, Devon the number of over 65s is enormous. Most have moved in from up country with cash in their pockets from expensive house sales to buy their retirement properties.

Monica thank you for that information regarding home ownership Must say I am astonished at some of the countries high up on that list.

Peasblossom I appreciate that the main problem is in certain
popular holiday areas, but other people keep widening the subject and making sweeping statements about second home owners as a whole, based on the relatively small proportion who own second properties in these contentious areas.

I am far more representative of second home owners than those who can afford second homes in these areas.

We each of us, have our own 'moral codes', and this is one that I know none in my family could break.

Is the view good up there from your moral high ground?

And I wouldn't be too sure about your family if I were you. I once saw a TV programme in which a group of villagers sat around talking about how dreadful it was that none of the young people in their village could get a home there because of second home ownership. Turned out every one of those featured had a second property that they let out.

What a strange thing to have as one's moral code. Rather like saying I know that no one in my family would ever have a garden.

What if a family member is offered a job 100 miles away and rather than move house and uproot their family, gets some accommodation near work for weekdays? Would they stay in bed and breakfast, or live in a touring caravan or sleep in their car rather than break their moral code and have somewhere small and comfortable to stay near work, Mon-Thurs?

Completely agree with all you say Monica.

But I can speak on behalf of my own children, Indeed, some years back one of my daughter and her hubbie (planning on starting a family) moved from a flat to a house, and then let out the flat. My daughter was always very unhappy about this (tried to appease it by telling the agent they were more than happy to have tenants who were in receipt of welfare payments. - and never had any problems with any tenant). But she was always unhappy, and do not think her hubbie was really much happier. After a couple of years they did sell the flat (money paid for their wedding to celebrate their twenty years together).

I would have thought that most families have their own moral codes, nothing to do with high grounds - just the values which we hold dear and I have brought them all up to follow. Maybe different to other peoples but we all share them.

Monica, if any of them had to work away from home, it would be exactly that - and they would rent somewhere for that short time. Or else make a big move. Few years back my youngest daughter managed to move the whole family (hubbie with own business, two primary school-aged children and herself), from Northern Ireland to the mainland South coast. Never was there any idea of them not all going together.

Back to the original question about insurance for holiday homes, I remember when we did the lettings through the holiday company abroad they wanted to check every up to date document going. When we did the lettings privately things were much more relaxed and we could almost choose the cover we wanted.

PS that was in the days when you could actually talk to a real insurance person! Our current insurances are all done online with no room for manouevrability.

I remember years ago when parts of Wales and also Brittany were affected by second homes being burned on the grounds that the usually English owners were depriving locals of homes. However, most of the houses bought as second homes had been abandoned by their owners who had moved into newish houses. After all, who wants to live in a cold, damp wreck. Whenever we went to Wales in the late sixties/early seventies I used to look for do-upables and imaging converting them. I also did the same whenever on holiday in France. We couldn't have afforded it then - just a pipe dream.

When we decided to buy some land in France we first looked at a plot owned by an Englishman. I asked how the locals felt about the influx of English people and he told us that the local maire was pleased because they kept shops open and also, because some of the incomers had young families, the schools.

Well, Franbern when DH had to work in Los Angeles for three months and later in Newcastle for 6 months, we decided not to sell up and move up there for that period. In each case we felt that by the time we had sold the house and moved, we would have to immediately have to go through the same procedur in reverse which would have disrupted the children's education, and damged my career and pension, so on each occasion he rented a flat for the duration of his posting

How any of these matters could in anyway be 'moral' issues I just cannot imagine. These are entirely practical decisions, dictated by circumstances.

As an army brat, I know that many forces family own their own house, which they may occupy from time to time, but when moving around from posting to posting live in quarters. It means when they leave the forces they have a roof over their head. One family we knew, disdained such practices and when the serving officer died suddenly of a heart attack, his wife and family were dependent on an Army charity to get a roof over their head.

My friend lives in south west too in an apartment building with mostly over 70’s residents. Just as the London and South East reported a big rise in cases before Xmas and were due to be placed into tier 3 the following day...2 families from London arrived for the week. With the building having communal areas, front/back doors, corridor doors etc, this became quite frightening for a lot of the residents. They felt fear in a place where they had until then and “should” have felt safe. So..no, to travel from any area particularly an area that had just been shut down. Think of others!

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Oooh Dinahmo you made me go all nostalgic. We always wanted to do up a wreck in Brittany. When push actually came to shove we were a bit more discerning and bought a place to offer upmarket holidays. It really paid off. We later sold to people from The Channel Islands. No French person in their right mind wanted 14 bedrooms! I've just found a few old photos where we were featured in a magazine.
Happy days!
As M0nica says, the right decisions are made at the right time and one's perspective can change with the prevailing circumstances.

Franbern

But I can speak on behalf of my own children, Indeed, some years back one of my daughter and her hubbie (planning on starting a family) moved from a flat to a house, and then let out the flat. My daughter was always very unhappy about this (tried to appease it by telling the agent they were more than happy to have tenants who were in receipt of welfare payments. - and never had any problems with any tenant). But she was always unhappy, and do not think her hubbie was really much happier. After a couple of years they did sell the flat (money paid for their wedding to celebrate their twenty years together).

I would have thought that most families have their own moral codes, nothing to do with high grounds - just the values which we hold dear and I have brought them all up to follow. Maybe different to other peoples but we all share them.

Monica, if any of them had to work away from home, it would be exactly that - and they would rent somewhere for that short time. Or else make a big move. Few years back my youngest daughter managed to move the whole family (hubbie with own business, two primary school-aged children and herself), from Northern Ireland to the mainland South coast. Never was there any idea of them not all going together.

So your family silly never own a second home....except when they do. But they will be unhappy owning someone else’s home. Maybe they should have let them stay for free?

What a ridiculous moral high ground.

You obviously cannot speak for your children.

So, are people unhappy about renting a holiday cottage that’s effectively a second home?

LilyJ: I do agree that what happened at your friends apartments was totally wrong.

Five pages in, I know, but what is meant by a second-home? The definition seems to be being widened to include those owning let-out holiday homes. Does it also include Buy-to-Lets, which some holiday homes are? What about the one I helped DS to buy some years ago, by taking out the mortgage and having my name registered as joint owner. Then there are those in tied accommodation, who also own a property.

I think the term second home has a myriad of meanings.
The OP was probably referring to a holiday home, but it was unclear whether the owners let it out or used it as their own escape pad. Basically it is physically impossible to actually live in both homes at the same time. In current times, it is impossible to even visit the other property, hence the question about insurance.
The issues regarding the rights to ownership bring up different opinions.