Anyone got a heat pump?

Peasblossom

So with an air pump, if the outside temperature is below 29 degrees how does it transfer heat to heat a house to 20 degrees?

How many days is the temperature above 20 in , say the Midlands! How many days would the heat pump actually work?

And if electric heating was needed to boost the temperature indoors would the process reverse and pump heat to the outside?

I ask because heat pumps installed on new builds where I used to live had to be replaced because they seemed to do just this.

Yes some can be reversed to cool the house

Imagine your freezer, it removes heat from inside and heats up the condenser or skin of the freezer, so it is in effect freezing the soil or air.

One of the great joys of gas combi boilers has been the ability not to have/get rid of those large hot water tanks in properties, particular smaller one like flats.
Hated those tanks, taking up a lot of room, running out of hot water often when it was needed, etc. etc.
Until some sort of non-gas combi boiler can be made, similar size to those, similar ability to heat water as it comes through as well as heat radiators - then cannot seem a lot of people in smaller properties being interested.

When we moved into our quite large house we couldn't get rid of the two great water tanks quick enough and install combi boilers. My heart sinks at the thought of having to put them back in again.

We have a very long house, roughly 55 foot frontage and 17 foot deep, with water pipes and bathrooms kitchens etc concentrated at each end of the 55 feet. We, therefore have two boilers, one each end. That means finding space for 2 large hot water tanks, plus, presumably, 2 heat pumps. hmm.

Are there no electrically powered instant water heating devices like the Qooker that have enough oomph to fill a bath?

SueDonim, with underfloor heating you can have a hard floor or carpet tiles or ordinary carpet, and if you have ordinary carpet you just need a special underlay. We have all three in different parts of the house and the heating works fine with all of them.

I would highly recommend underfloor heating but the only drawback is that if you have no radiators, you have nowhere to dry your socks quickly!. On the other hand, you do have access to all your walls for shelves.

There’s this, Monica. I came across it when looking at heating for my mum. www.fischerfutureheat.com/electric-heaters/aquafficient/

Thank you, Wheniwasyourage (love the name!), that’s useful to know. I’m not keen on hard floors, except for kitchen & bathroom. My dd has all hard floors downstairs in her house and it’s so noisy with people clattering about. Our house is upside down so hard floors would mean no one in bed would ever get any sleep!

Thank you for that SueDonim

Another query for anyone in the know. We have a south facing roof but will not be allowed to have solar panels because the house is listed. However we have a 30 foot long shed on the same orientation about 70 feet from the house. Is it practical to put the panels there and can we either feed it back to the house without too much loss of power on the way or directly into the grid via the electricity pole carrying our mains electricity, which is less than 6 feet from the shed.

SueDonim The Fischer name rang a bell I googled it and found this

Leicester City Council Trading Standards has taken an electric heater supplier to court on charges including fraud and aggressive sales practices. Documents submitted to Leicester Crown Court accuse Fischer Future Heat UK Ltd of making false claims to customers about the suitability of its products, overstating how good they were at storing heat and the savings the company’s products could make on household bills.

The documents say one sales representative offered to take a customer to the bank to pay for a heating system before they had a chance to change their mind.

Here is the link to the full indictment. www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/fischer-future-heat-uk-face-4821958

Like you, Sue I have seen lots of adverts for Fischer Future Heat - and been really interested in their products. But after reading this. I think I will avoid them.

SueDonim

There’s this, Monica. I came across it when looking at heating for my mum. www.fischerfutureheat.com/electric-heaters/aquafficient/

Thank you, Wheniwasyourage (love the name!), that’s useful to know. I’m not keen on hard floors, except for kitchen & bathroom. My dd has all hard floors downstairs in her house and it’s so noisy with people clattering about. Our house is upside down so hard floors would mean no one in bed would ever get any sleep!

Please please please be very wary of that company.

www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/fischer-future-heat-uk-face-4821958

MamCaz Two minds but a single thought.

You beat me to it, Monica

The same family are behind energy company Outfox the Market. I would also avoid that like the plague, having experienced first-hand how they treat customers.

I didn't know that. I have always avoided the small energy companies, because they are so unstable, but tales over recent weeks have shown that quite a number of them have been causing customers lots of problems with overpayments and a refusal to repay large balances.

I knew that Fischer had been dubious in the past but didn’t know they were still at it. My next door neighbour had new heaters installed by them recently and is very pleased with them.

I’m sure electric combi boilers will be developed soon, if they haven’t already. The technology is moving so faster at the moment.

Electric combi boilers do exist..am thinking of replacing our oil boiler with one if it ever gives up the ghost

Not going to bother we've just bought a new gas boiler that will last us till we've pop our clogs. Until the likes of Russia, China and India go green there's no point in us doing anything

Having seen on tv the mess that has resulted after the lack of co- ordination between central and local government to get houses insulated, even though a grant has been given to pay for it, I can see this is going to be a complete mess with possible planning permission being needed for houses in some areas to have the unit fitted to the outside of the house.
Personally, I think it should be compulsory for every new build house be properly insulated, a heat pump fitted and solar panels be fitted on the roof.

What about flats?
I live in a listed cottage witha mix of gas fire, antique storage heaters and electric hot water system. I am hoping to sell and move to a new build flat in the nearest town. I was surprised that the first, large, development I looked at was heated entirely by gas. What are flat owners supposed to do ?

I live in the Southern eastern US and heat pumps work great here. If you have cold winters your auxiliary heat will kick in and then it will be just as expensive as whatever fuel your auxiliary heat uses.

In answer to Peasblossom's question about how you can transfer heat from somewhere cold to somewhere warmer I would offer the following comment which I hope is not over-simplistic.

Heat pumps are very much like refrigerators or deep freezers - it's just that the heat pumps take heat from the air/ground outside the building to warm the air inside the building whereas the refrigerators remove heat from their interiors (so that they remain cold as they would, if the refrigerator/freezer were not working, warm up because the outside temperature is higher than their internal temperature) and, in the process, warm the air round them.

You should be able to experience that effect if you put your hand into the gap that you should have between any work surface and the top of the refrigerator/freezer where it will feel warm as the waste heat is spread into the room in which the cooling appliance is housed. Particularly with a freezer, that should clearly demonstrate that it is possible to remove heat from a colder place and transfer it to a warmer place.

Thank you. I can see what you’re saying although it still wars with the thought that heat cannot pass from a cooler to a hotter. A bit like I can’t really see how planes stay up ??

Now I’m wondering, if we remove heat from the ground will that have an impact on the eco-systems below ground? Has anyone even thought about this?

www.express.co.uk/news/nature/1494837/gas-grass-plant-money-saving-switch-carbon-neutral-biomethane-climate-change

I think this is an interesting take on the problem, from Dale Vince

Oh wow, I love the sound of the gas from grass system. It seems more sensible and overall far cheaper than the heat pumps and amazing that no changes to the infrastructure or to appliances in peoples homes needs to happen. I hope the trial one at Reading will be a success and it can be replicated across the country. Also eventually no need to rely on foreign suppliers.

I don't have one and am unlikely to as I have just had a new boiler installed for free. This is mThis is a warning about gas boiler engineers, because what they did was cut off my gas supply at the main and put notices on my boiler, telling me I could not have the gas turned on until I bought a new boiler.
In June, British Gas serviced my boiler. The engineer made no comment and left. The contract runs May to May, and I had just signed a new contract, which I have had since 1987 in this house.
In July, it wasn't working. British Gas sent an engineer down who appeared to have fixed it. The first day he said the fan needed replacing. and returned the next day to install it. I did not stay in the room. He gave all the signals that he had finished. When I asked for the paperwork he said they were not giving out work sheets because of covid. I accepted that. I later found it to be untrue.
I did not use the boiler until September, when the weather was cooler. I have an immersion heater as well. On 5 September, I went to put the boiler on. It wasn't working at all, no pilot light and the electric switch to the controls was off. That is how the engineer in July left it. I contacted BG by facebook message and they sent an engineer on 6th. When he arrived, he saw for himself there was no life in it. I did wonder if the engineer was bogus, but he was on the computer. That engineer had a mate with him. He told me that it needed a new fan. When I said one had been fitted in July he saw the entry. When I told him I had no paperwork and why, he said it was not true, that they were giving work sheets.
He ordered a new fan and arrived next day to fit it, with his mate. Then it got interesting, because he took the part out of the box and said it was broken and waved under my nose a loose copper wire. Now this time I stayed in the room, (it is a dining room and computer room in the disabled living extension at the top of the wheelchair ramp, so there was no need for me to leave the room. For the life of me I do not remember seeing them open the boiler and take anything out. For what happened next there was no time. I turned round when he mentioned something and saw his mate standing there with a completely brown rusted square plate with screw holes in which the mate was trying to scrape the rust away.
The engineer then said the plate was what the fan was supposed to be screwed onto and it was impossible because it was so rusty, and he said they cannot repair the boiler because the part is obsolete.
I asked why that was not noticed at the service in June, when I had just renewed to contract (£60+ a month). He said it was not part of the service. Then I asked why the engineer did not notice that he was screwing a new fan onto the rusty plate. The engineer said 'He should have done', nothing else. It was shockingly rusted. It could not possibly have been missed if it was in my boiler. He made much of phoning the spare parts and told me it was definitely obsolete and they could not repair it, and turned off the gas supply in the garage 'until you get a new boiler'. I looked at the job sheets and turned the one over which was left on 6/9 and he had worked out the cost of a new boiler and how much energy it would save. Had he forgotten that? It had been written out before he 'discovered' the rusty plate.
After they left I looked up the part number and it was indeed obsolete - but it bore no resemblance to the part he showed me.
I was well and truly stitched up by British Gas. I am 80 and have been disabled 35 years, and a widow for 12 years. They knew all that, I was in the record as vulnerable. The prospect of going through the winter without a working boiler was stressful.
I googled new boilers and costs. As I was trawling down a column I came across a website which was offering new boilers free to those who qualified. Among the list was DLA, which I have had since 1992, so I immediately applied and the response was very fast. A surveyor came down to see the house and check the insulation and double glazing. He recommended underfloor insulation and told me I had a grant of £4,000 for a new boiler and insulation.
He was horrified when he saw the gas had been cut off, and moved very quickly, less than a fortnight and I had a new boiler 2 weeks ago at no cost to me. The insulation has made a lot of difference.
When the old boiler was taken out, the engineer from this company said there was evidence of rust without taking it apart and that should have been noticed in June when it was serviced, He made no comment about why the rusty plate the fan was fixed to went unnoticed in July.
Well the new boiler lasted two days and they had to send the Bosch engineer down to put it right, which he did. It has been perfect ever since.
WHAT IS MIRACULOUS TO ME IS THE REMOTE CONTROL. I can turn the boiler on and off from the bedroom and am over the moon.
I hope to warn you all, because being disabled does not give you any help from British Gas engineers.y story:

MichStew
Does a heat pump send warm air circulating around the house? How does that work with underfloor insulation?
My late husband and I had warm air central heating but changed to a combi boiler because the dust stirred up was causing breathing problems. When it was gone, we were so much better for it. I have just posted my bad experience before the announcement of £5,000 towards a heat pump. I am wondering if the free boilers are to get rid of the old system before people start to change to pumps? If the scheme is just for three years it does not seem long enough for people to make a decision, especially as BBC interview said people will have to shell out a similar amount themselves.

llizzie2

MichStew
Does a heat pump send warm air circulating around the house? How does that work with underfloor insulation?
My late husband and I had warm air central heating but changed to a combi boiler because the dust stirred up was causing breathing problems. When it was gone, we were so much better for it. I have just posted my bad experience before the announcement of £5,000 towards a heat pump. I am wondering if the free boilers are to get rid of the old system before people start to change to pumps? If the scheme is just for three years it does not seem long enough for people to make a decision, especially as BBC interview said people will have to shell out a similar amount themselves.

You can get a warm air heating system but as you say it stirs up the dust and is not good. An underfloor system uses hot water pipes embedded in the floor preferably with insulation underneath. Fitting that along with dry lining walls to an existing property is a major operation

We recently moved and have had to replace the central heating system. The boiler was an old back boiler behind a hideous gas fire and didn't even work. We tried our best to "go green" and had every intention of having the gas supply stripped out of the house, so we could go all electric. We've got a 1920s bungalow with a dormer extension, so it's long. It's double glazed all round. In our efforts to go green, we spoke to several electricians about electric boilers, gas engineers about gas boilers which are "hydrogen ready", and various companies about solar panels and heat pumps. We did a lot of research online and were armed with lots of questions. All of them said it is currently very hard to go green and get rid of gas boilers. And very expensive. They all said heat pumps require a huge amount of insulation and up front expense, and some require an "out house" to put all the machinery and equipment in, or a small room in the house. They are hugely expensive and we were advised to wait 10 years, at which point the technology will have improved, got smaller and much cheaper - like all technology - look at the price of solar panels. Hydrogen ready gas boilers are not readily available yet and hydrogen, as a fuel, is hugely expensive. Electric boilers are OK for small houses and flats, but not efficient for larger houses or houses with "long runs" of pipework. Solar power reduces your bills and if you have enough panels it should give you "free" energy. However, all the schemes are expensive, the batteries are expensive, and it's difficult to find a solar fitter that is installing them as a job on its own, not as part of a green scheme. I've spoken to a couple of companies who were part of green schemes and they were thoroughly objectionable and refused to even come out to do a survey - I didn't have a year's worth of bills and I wanted to pay up front, not get a loan or finance - because they were basically coming out to do a sales pitch. After 3 months with no heating or hot water (apart from the electric shower!!) we had to decide on buying the best gas boiler we could get at this time, and will put extra insulation under the new floors when they get laid in the next few months. We are also going to continue to search for a solar fitter who will just come and fit the panels and link them into the grid. We'll keep an eye on developments over the coming years and keep talking to people. So if you are trying to go green then do your research, talk to lots of people, and don't rush into anything. At the moment these new technologies are expensive but welcome, but other technologies are coming down the road.