Anyone got a heat pump?

When we moved into our quite large house we couldn't get rid of the two great water tanks quick enough and install combi boilers. My heart sinks at the thought of having to put them back in again.

We have a very long house, roughly 55 foot frontage and 17 foot deep, with water pipes and bathrooms kitchens etc concentrated at each end of the 55 feet. We, therefore have two boilers, one each end. That means finding space for 2 large hot water tanks, plus, presumably, 2 heat pumps. hmm.

Are there no electrically powered instant water heating devices like the Qooker that have enough oomph to fill a bath?

One of the great joys of gas combi boilers has been the ability not to have/get rid of those large hot water tanks in properties, particular smaller one like flats.
Hated those tanks, taking up a lot of room, running out of hot water often when it was needed, etc. etc.
Until some sort of non-gas combi boiler can be made, similar size to those, similar ability to heat water as it comes through as well as heat radiators - then cannot seem a lot of people in smaller properties being interested.

Peasblossom

So with an air pump, if the outside temperature is below 29 degrees how does it transfer heat to heat a house to 20 degrees?

How many days is the temperature above 20 in , say the Midlands! How many days would the heat pump actually work?

And if electric heating was needed to boost the temperature indoors would the process reverse and pump heat to the outside?

I ask because heat pumps installed on new builds where I used to live had to be replaced because they seemed to do just this.

Yes some can be reversed to cool the house

Imagine your freezer, it removes heat from inside and heats up the condenser or skin of the freezer, so it is in effect freezing the soil or air.

We considered an electric boiler for a small one-bed property when it looked as though the gas boiler was conking out. It wasn’t a viable option as there was nowhere for a tank to be installed. The company that we consulted said they’ve found electric boilers to be a good option (assuming there’s space for a tank) for small properties such as flats or two bed homes but they’re not such a good solution for larger homes.

Two of our neighbours have electric boilers in their houses. One of the houses needed two of them, as it’s a large property. The running costs are massive. The other house is considering changing to an oil boiler.

Luckily the gas boiler mentioned above got over itself and started working again!

I’d hang back for now from doing anything, because I am sure technology will improve all these things and the costs will come down as more are produced.

On the topic of underfloor heating - do you need to have hard flooring or can you have it with carpeting?

So with an air pump, if the outside temperature is below 29 degrees how does it transfer heat to heat a house to 20 degrees?

How many days is the temperature above 20 in , say the Midlands! How many days would the heat pump actually work?

And if electric heating was needed to boost the temperature indoors would the process reverse and pump heat to the outside?

I ask because heat pumps installed on new builds where I used to live had to be replaced because they seemed to do just this.

Why not replace with an electric boiler?.

Because Heat Pumps transfer heat from soil or air via a expansion cycle similar to refrigeration and they produce 3 or 4 times as much as a direct electric boiler would.

This makes them about the same cost to run as a gas boiler would, it’s not cost to run that is important, they generate less CO2 because half our electricity is non fossil fuel it is far less polluting.

I would be interested to know how much your outlay was Mamissimo?
It sounds almost too good to be true.

Heat pumps are being discussed just now on Radio 2.

As I have said on the other heat pump thread. Why can we not just replace gas boilers with electric boilers? They cost about £1,000, are quick and easy to install, with no need to fiddle around with the rest of the system. More expensive to run, but heat pumps are not cheap to run and many homes will need to supplement them with other electric heaters or wood-burning stoves.

Heat pumps are a good idea for new properties, but, as Scones says they are very noisy. Just imagine a run of little late 19th century terrace houses, backing onto a similar terrace, both with small backyards containing heatpumps, the racket will be horrendous. And what about flats, will they have one huge noisy heatpump on the roof or will each flat have individual heatpumps installed in a window, all buzzing away.

Heatpumps, except in new build, strike me as a very complicated solution to a relatively simple problem.

We have had an air source heat pump for three years and we're very happy with it. We live in an old house so it was a retro fit. It took three days to install, together with some solar panels and three new radiators to replace three which were too small.

Without good insulation it won't be as efficient but we always have enough hot water and aren't cold. You do need a large hot water cylinder and I think some people will struggle to find space for it. It's not noisy.

Over the year I pay about £150 a month for electricity but that's all our energy costs for heating, lighting, cooking, hot water and living. It's double that in the winter and half that in the summer.

Btw our pump is very quiet.

We have an air source heat pump. It was installed when our house was renovated, before we bought, and we have underfloor heating and a lot of insulation. The pump is pretty much out of sight but we have grown some shrubs to mask it as they’re not pretty things. We have found it very efficient and the house is always nice and warm. However you can’t just bolt them onto an existing radiator system. The pipe work and radiators may have to be changed, so quite an expensive and disruptive exercise. The £5k grant would cover only a small part of the cost of adding an air source pump to an existing building and getting it to function effectively.

I think it may well be better to wait until the technology updates the heat pumps to both something a lot smaller and with no noise.

It won’t take long I don’t suppose. Although given my age??

I’ve looked at this, wether I can update my Bungalow to a heat pump.

To work properly you need underfloor heating not radiators because water temperature is lower than a boiler would be.
2 types, Air source is cheaper and easier but in freezing air temperatures are not efficient, Ground source is much better but more expensive.

So unless you are planning a full refurbishment of the whole house and installing underfloor heating and probably dry lining it’s not a practical option, even with the grant money.

So for me it’s a new gas boiler

I am hoping I’ll be gone before all these changes happen. I fear it will be a disaster.
Remember being told that diesel cars were better for the environment or being persuaded to change lightbulbs to those ghastly ones which gave off much less light?
This country makes such a small difference to the world’s CO2 emissions while for example Australia continues to sell coal to China which is opening coal fired powers stations at an unbelievable rate.

Love it Urmstongran and have stolen it.

This made me laugh from the Telegraph today.
?

I’d like to do my bit to reduce our carbon emissions, but our boiler, though old, is in good order.
A ground source heat pump would be no good for us as our garden is small.

Petera I’d also be bothered about trained installers. District heating would be great, if as you say the government were more ambitious.

DS had a heat pump in a house he rented for a year in France.
He sent us a photo, and it was massive. He liked it and said it was very efficient, though he didn’t mention the noise.

I think we’ll have to wait and see how the technology goes.

PamelaJ1 I’ll look out for the thread on heat recovery systems.

I phoned my local council re this grant for heating as soon as the notice came through the letter box to be told I had missed the boat and the funding for my area had already been used. Lady took my details and said that a Stage 2 funding would be coming out but they have no idea when. So, my boiler is also on it's last legs, I will just have to keep my fingers crossed.

We rented an 'eco house' which was insulated to the hilt, had an air source heat pump and solar panels. Everything including the underfloor heating was electric. The solar panels and insulation were so effective that we never paid for electricity.

We had to turn the air source heat pump off as it was directly under our bedroom window and so noisy we couldn't sleep. The garden was small and the pump was bulky, ugly and as noisy as a truck idling. I'm afraid I can't comment on their effectiveness, but I can say that I would never have another one unless I was utterly convinced it would be quiet.

My neighbour had one installed the pump is on his outside wall its big. He also had a system linked to new solar panels and batteries in his garage to store surplus electricity generated by the pump. He was told the heat pump won't generate as much heat as his boiler and he might need bigger radiators. Its only been a few months so he hasn't really tested it in Winter. I don't know if this system is what is generally installed but there was a lot of disruption.

I read an article saying the cost would be c.£10k and the government proposes ‘help’ (? a loan) for half that amount. I think the whole mess will end up a shambles. My cousin has one it’s in his garden. It is very noisy! We live in an apartment and it’s all electric so I’m hoping this stress just passes us by.

Cost apart, they look huge! Far larger than the combi boilers they are meant to replace. Where on earth would you put one?

So much about them on the news today.

I don't have one but am about to get quotes for a new gas boiler as the current one is on its last legs.

anxiousgran

Do any gransnetters have heat pumps?
What level of insulation did you need to have? Was it very disruptive having it installed and are you satisfied with it?
Was it very expensive and how do the running costs compare with gas?
Apologies if this has already been discussed.

Not personally but I have a friend with a ground source heat pump. I presume it's much more expensive to install than an air source as it needs a big hole. It was part of a serious renovation, almost a new build, so the insulation is good but not - I believe - exceptional. The running costs seem to be similar to their old gas boiler.

One thing that concerns me with this - while I agree with the direction of travel - is the availability of trained installers. We, personally, have an underfloor system running off a gas boiler with several zones in the house (some of which have concrete floors and some of which are wooden, so require different temperatures/controls), it’s a little complicated but it’s standard technology, and we had endless problems trying to find someone competent.

I really think that the government - if it were ambitious - should be moving to district heating, either fuelled by waste are commercial ground source pumps.