get grandchildren out of foster care

Thank you JessM

I think maybe you are going to have to convince the social workers etc that you will not collude with their mother in any ways that they will see as inappropriate - that you will maintain the boundaries the court wants in place. I am guessing that you need to be clear in what you say about her not being fit to look after them at the moment.
Any ex social workers on GN - ????

As a still practising social worker with experience in kinship care I would say that you are absolutely right JessM and that is precisely what the social workers will be looking at. You probably know that already bewilderedgran from your experience of having the residence order for your eldest grandchild. It does sound as though things are going in the right direction at last and you are being very tolerant and understanding about the fact that the children need to remain where they are until the assessments are completed. It is very clear that you have your grandchildren's best interests at heart and I'm sure that will come across to the social workers. However you are right to be cautious about the social workers' intentions at this stage. I wish you all the luck in the world. If there is anything I can do to help you only need to ask, either on here on via a PM if you prefer.

Thank you JessM and nightowl ,you are right I need to make sure I keep a line drawn that cannot be crossed or they won't trust me to protect them,I will just have to convince them I am capable of doing so .

Hiya

I am in very similar situation, my 3 grandchildren were taken into care and I have had contact but judgement has been given and not shared with me (judges orders) and the children's circumstances have changed. I have now applied for a contact order which the Local authority is supporting and the L A are asking for what our long terms plans are for the children and we may be expected to step up to the mark. My advice to all - get the LA onside

SJP do you mean you had contact before but now you don't and have to ask for it again ?

The problem is I think LA is on my side but then they say / do something that changes that view ..................I'm not sure I will ever feel secure in that .

moving forward I have met solicitor and they want us to do guardianship but we want to foster first as that gives us support with the children remembering I will then have 4 .............................later we can move to special guardianship and secure their future but this way we get help/support and training ,our grandchildren are an will be quite badly affected by this situation with their mum,which is still getting worse

what do others think ,should we stand firm on this

moving forward I have met solicitor and they want us to do guardianship but we want to foster first as that gives us support with the children remembering I will then have 4 .............................later we can move to special guardianship and secure their future but this way we get help/support and training ,our grandchildren are an will be quite badly affected by this situation with their mum,which is still getting worse

what do others think ,should we stand firm on this

Stand firm would be my advice - and for the very reasons you've mentioned. After two years of special guardianship the local authority has no statutory duty to provide remuneration or other help and support. When such support becomes discretionary then I'm afraid the usual result is that it is not provided.

Do grandparents who foster their own grandchildren get paid the current fostering allowance?

We didn't get anything but then we did it informally. We discussed it with social services but had nothing in writing rightly or wrongly.We were in a different position though as they were very young and were not financially burdensome and the parents also made a contribution.

I hope they do. In these circumstances money is often going to be pretty tight.

It's a minefield Orca but the short answer is yes, grandparents can receive the full fostering allowance if their grandchildren are already 'looked after children' and are placed by the local authority. If a grandparent is already caring for their grandchildren the local authority would argue that the children do not need to become 'looked after' and this is a private matter. Any support is then discretionary and local authorities vary so much in their practice in this area.

bewideredgran I would advise you to remain firm on this but be very wary as I have known local authorities to use the argument 'we want permanence for these children and fostering does not offer this, so the alternative may be to seek adoptive parents.' It is disgraceful practice and I hope your authority is not one of these offenders.

I am aware of a situation where a grandmother (about 66 yrs), who was already a foster carer specifically for older children, now has care of three of her grandchildren (7, 6 and 4) All have significant emotional needs. however it appears that because of the legal arrangement the children are not considered to be fostered so G'ma gets no additional support from the LA that placed them with her. The children are so needy. The school that they attend are supportive and have tried to support G'ma but no help easily available. If they had been fostered out of the family i believe more help and support would have been forthcoming.

nightowl - it makes me shudder to think that the threat of taking the children away to be adopted might be used to avoid fostering payments and support. How very underhand.

I know Mishap, it makes me shudder too. I came across it only last year in a local authority which I suppose I must not name. The poor grandmother, who was doing an excellent job and was devoted to her grandchildren, was too afraid to stand her ground and agreed to seek a Special Guardianship Order, much too early in my opinion.

Can i just say that any cost cutting policies such as mentioned above are decided at Directorate level and driven by senior & middle mnagement. Social Workers at the front end have no choice but to impliment these measures.

That's true Notso but in the case I referred to (and sadly it doesn't appear to have been an isolated incident) I don't think it was actual policy but the way policy was interpreted by particular workers. Of course they would also have had to convince the Court to accept their change of plan but knowing how long care proceedings take and the twists and turns that happen along the way this is quite possible. The point is that the implicit threat was sufficient to frighten the grandmother into going along with them.

I certainly don't want to frighten you off doing what is right bewilderedgran and not all local authorities are bad. Indeed, some have excellent policies and support packages in place for family carers. I sincerely hope that yours is one.

Thank you everyone ,it's shocking what may happen and I have to say I would find it hard if they threaten to get them adopted ,and then I would get very angry .
What we are going to do is say why we want to foster to start with but with a plan to permanence ,if we make a good case as to why we need support to start with I hope they will find it hard to argue .

what I need to do now is insist the solicitor represents what we want (not social services ) and make a statement saying why we will need support

I'm struggling though as I don't know what support we could get ..........not much point in asking for it if they don't provide it .
if we don't do it this way all will suffer and we will be doing our grandchildren a disservice

as for their mother ,more info is coming out and the relationship is going to be fraught which won't help

Within any Court proceedings bewilderedgran each 'party' has separate legal representation. No solicitor needs to make a decision as to which views they represent....they all represent the individual views of their individual clients.

Having a fraught relationship with your daughter will not promote the best interests of the children. Please bear that in mind in any discussions you have with the children's Social Worker and the Court appointed Guardian ad Litem.

Thank you Notso ,I understand what you are saying but it is fraught on her side with me and the children (if that makes sense ) there are probably drugs involved which are making her actions erratic at best ,this is why I think we need to go the foster route .

to explain the children were placed with us for almost 3 months and all was great until SS decided we needed to sort things out between us voluntarily,their mum then had them while I returned to work (3 hours an evening then I would collect them) and she would pay towards their keep .
this was when it all went badly wrong ,turning up late ,not paying anything ,not doing what she was supposed to do for them while she had them ,the children upset all the time ,it was awful

then ss tried to go legal and children were returned home ,this was a disaster

ss then went to legal again and removed the children ,3 into care and 1 to me ,I told them I wanted to have them and they said no,it is not best to have them all

So then I researched how to do it and called FRG helpline and sent in a letter to ss,childrens guardian and childrens solicitor ....................only then did they take note and are now doing an assessment as all agreed it should be done ,that's when I found out I could be party to proceedings and have a solicitor

though their mum has told ss she agrees they should come to me ,the relationship is fraught but ss know this is not because of me .....................surely they will understand this is why we need to foster and get support ,of we will all suffer in the end surely

does that make sense ,I hope so lol

It does make sense bewilderedgran. All of the earlier to-ing & fro-ing of the children between you and their mother will have taken place not because Social Services thought it was a good idea, but because they have no choice but to abide by legislation which requires this.

The local authority has to demonstrate that they have tried everything possible to keep a child with their parent/s before a Court will grant a Care Order.

In terms of the fraught relationship, even though it's not caused by you, the way that you manage it will be the issue that could impact upon the children. Social Workers and Guardians will always consider this element when extended family placements are being considered.

Thank you Notso I do understand where you are coming from ,we had our viability done and sw sees no reason not to allow us to be considered ....................so there is hope

Thankfully we have had the viability done and the SW has told us they will recommend that we are assessed as carers ,we are back in court next week so we will see what happens then ,I have a solicitor now and have done a statement of intention should the children come to me .

Sadly daughter has withdrawn a lot and now won't have any contact with us at all .

her solicitor has changed and this could delay things moving forward ,though the court did say it may have to move forward anyway as the constant delays are impacting on the children

I fear the distance between us will convince the court the best place for the children is where they are now