Has everybody invested their ISA money?.

absent the right to equal pay is enshrined in law surely? I can understand that women tend to earn less than men if they have responsibility for children but that is different to what you claimed.

Whatever.

Sel The same or equivalent work, yes. Try government statistics or the Fawcett society or any number of think tanks.

Movedalot Knowing what is in your mind and reading what you say are not necessarily the same things. I cannot do the former, however magical other grannies may be, but I can do the latter.

Even if what you say is eventually disentangled…

CBA.

I worked in an office for about 9 years and all the staff were of a reasonably high grade.
I don't know the reason why but women did not seem to want to work there except for 1.
We could not go and grab women off the street and say you must come and work for us.

Frank

absent you talk about a huge gender pay gap - where? Is there a specific area where men are paid hugely more than women for doing the same work?

absent I agree your constant picking on my posts is boring. You knew what I meant, others knew what I meant, you chose to pick it about, as you say boring.

So many women have had difficult lives and had no choice but to put up with it. Young women today will never have to suffer worse treatment just because they are female but we don't keep moaning about it, we just get on with our lives.

There's no mention of 40 years ago in your post or mine. I wasn't comparing now and forty years ago (or fifty according to Sel). I was simply pointing out that women still endure discrimination on the basis of their gender. That is an indisputable fact.

I suggested that your inability to acknowledge the continuing existence of gender discrimination might be something to do with not having daughters. Not acknowledging a well-established fact is, by definition, a blinkered viewpoint.

What does your sentence in bold above mean if it does not mean that you are saying that discrimination on the basis of gender no longer exists?

This is extremely boring.

Violence does happen against women but women are sometimes violent against men.
I was attacked by a woman who was drunk in Birmingham a few weeks ago in front of a police officer.
She was arrested and she was calling us both male chauvinist pigs and swearing etc.
There was a cctv camera on us at the time and other witnesses. A woman police officer was there about a minute later and got abuse.
I was asked by the police if I wanted to make a complaint but I just told them to do what they thought was right.
I was not concerned about what had happened to me but I was concerned that she might have done something like hit a child and the consequences could be a lot more serious.
That was also the main concern of the police officer.
The police took my name and address and a statement and said they would contact me if necessary.

Frank

absent your response to my Friday post seemed to suggest that you thought women were not better off today that 40 years ago and that I didn't understand that, possibly because I have sons. You now suggest I have a 'blinkered viewpoint'. I would suggest that you have a narrow viewpoint. I am still female, I have 2 DiLs, one soon to be DiL and lots of friends why would I not see women's points of view?

Please explain where you got the idea that I suggested "such discrimination no longer exists". It seems to me that you have again misread my post.

Possibly we are comparing apples and pears absent You are talking more about women in relationships than in employment. Violence against women continues I agree but empowering women through education to enable them to be independent financially has helped I would have thought. I don't have the stats to hand but surely things have improved in this regard or is it just the reporting of the crimes?

Movedalot and Sel Many women, whether young or older, still suffer worse treatment than men in many ways in our society today simply because they are women. That is undeniable. I didn't suggest quotas or positive discrimination to establish greater equality although I think they might be interesting ideas to explore more thoughtfully.

To suggest that such discrimination no longer exists struck me as cheerful over-optimism – hence my use of the word sanguine – and I simply wondered whether such a blinkered viewpoint stemmed from not having to concern oneself with the future prospects of daughters. I certainly made no suggestion that anyone was unbalanced.

Btw, can I just say I did n' t mean any poster was money obsessed. Was referring to son.

No, I couldn't understand the reference to your having three sons either Moved and I agree about work and support for women now in comparison to fifty years ago. Obviously the situation is vastly different in some other countries and cultures but here, things are good. I don't believe in a glass ceiling at all, some women just aren't good enough or determined enough to make it to the top - or maybe, when they have children, their priorities change. Not right or wrong, it's human nature.

I am completely opposed to positive discrimination or quotas regarding women. If you're worth it and prepared to be single minded then everything is within reach but I thinking the idea of 'having it all' is a fallacy.

I'll post again what I posted on Friday which seems to have been interpreted as me not understanding how women still suffer:

"soop that reminds me of something I heard recently: "if you can't have what you love, love what you have"

So many women have had difficult lives and had no choice but to put up with it. Young women today will never have to suffer worse treatment just because they are female but we don't keep moaning about it, we just get on with our lives. I could list lots here but I don't expect my problems have been very different from many others.

I strongly dislike this patronising attitude Frank, please try to think what effect your words may have on others."

Now perhaps someone can explain how young women today suffer worse treatement than 40 odd years ago or what having 3 sons has to do with anything?

Why is this one more discussion about the character of a gransnet member (the same one)?

Frank reminds me of an older version of my son. He's got money on the brain. Probably not a fault. (he's very sweet as well.as, no doubt, is Frank)

I've started a new thread on the saying "get a life" and what it means to me ...

For goodness' sake, Frank, stop flogging dead horses. In this thread you have again gone over the story of your house and the issue of women only exercise classes. Please give them a rest - I think we all understand where you're coming from.

seems to me Frank was just giving another example of a unfair practice.

Gransnet would be a duller place without Frank

Frank does have a life - it sounds fine to me.

"get a life" is a horrible saying.

HUNTERF, Can I suggest you get a life? please be content with your lot, what has happened in the past cannot be changed, you seem to be so confrontational with absolutely everything, loosen up and live a little, who knows you may feel better.

Another point.
Just before Christmas a few years ago half the classes were cancelled and the ladies class was still running.
It said in the brochure it was a ladies class but it did not say it on the notice board which I read.
A different cashier was on duty that day and a different instructor.
I did the class and a male member of staff stopped me when I was going out and said I had just been in a ladies only class.
Several of the ladies heard what he said and he asked why they had not told me it was a ladies only class.
They laughed and replied that if I had the bottle to walk in to a class of 30 ladies they were not going to stop me.

Frank

Elegran

Female only classes are fine if they are not being subsidised out of the council tax which men and women pay.
Also the leisure centre charge men the same monthly membership rate when women had more classes to attend.
I along with other men complained and all classes were then made mixed.
A point a lady did raise when I suggested men should pay less if they were not allowed to use the same number of classes is she should be allowed to take out male membership as she only ever attended mixed classes.
She said she would not support female only classes.
Really I think men should have a refund for the classes they have been unable to attend in the past.

Frank