Flat rate state pension as low as £66 per week

The pension has always been contribution based; that has not changed. Anyone who gets less than the full amount will presumably not have made enough contributions. That is not a change.

If anyone is not receiving the full amount, has no other income and little savings they will, as they would be under the current pension be able to claim Pension Credit.

You reference your petition but, I notice, do not reference the article in the Telegraph to which you refer. I, personally would like to read it for myself.

The government has omitted to inform workers that those reaching state pension age on and after 6 April 2016, who have been contracted out of SERPS / S2P and have a guaranteed minimum pension (GMP) as part of their occupational pension, will no longer receive cost of living increases on these GMPs.

People "contract out", that means did not pay as much as others did into the state pension but put it in a pension where they believed they would get a better return for their money. You are asking that they not only get the personal pension which the government is ensuring will be as much as if they had continued to pay into their state pension in full (GMP) and have the payments they didn't make into the state pension and are not making into it, re-instated at no cost to them. People contracting out were always advised to get advice. You are asking that they have their cake and eat it.

There is a second revived thread on this subject running. From that I am going to paste here a very thorough comment from someone (last July) whose name I've never seen before on GN but would like to thank. It makes clear that things are not as they've always been and a lot of sleight of hand is going on and many of us are likely to be in penury in the future.

From 2016 the Flat Rate Pension means forever losing food money:

- No pension credit for new claimants
- End of State Earnings Related Pension and State Second Pension, so no triple lock guaranteed annual rise from these additional pensions
- End of 60 per cent state pension for housewives from husband's contribution
- End of divorcees getting a share of husband's state pension contributions
- End of widows inheriting state pension from husband

Full flat rate means fully paid up SERPs / S2P as well as raised
NI contributions from 30 now to 35 years from 2016.

So not even 30 per cent of new claimants get full flat rate, which itself is less than many current claimants get as full state pension and pension credit. And Welsh pensioners already get more, so is less for new claimants.

And to family and friends who turn 80 after April 2016 who lose forever:

- End of Category D pension which is about £67 extra for those with no state pension or on a pro rata below basic level state pension.

https:// you .38degrees.org.uk/petitions/state-pension-at-60-now

Without state pension, your children turned 60 / 65 from 2013, do not have access to Winter Fuel Allowance, but again this benefit is threatened after 2015.

Benefits can be delayed for months, and sanctions can be imposed for the least thing and last up to 3 years.

If you have not been on benefits or in work for last two tax years, you do not get the full contribution rate but only income rate but with the lowest amount of other income.

Some agencies are not giving out vouchers to food banks, to those who have lost or had benefit sanctioned.

If you do get contribution rate benefit, then your works and benefit is taxed even if way below the basic tax allowance.

There are other petitions in the comment section about this, for you to peruse.

Council tax benefit was devolved to cash-strapped councils and 100 per cent lost because the savings level was dropped from £16,000 to £6,000.

If one member of a couple is below the raised retirement age, then those who ask for help will get hit by the Bedroom Tax (ending for all in a Free Scotland with a yes majority on 18 September).

Women MPs kept pension payout at 60 from 2012, when us the public lost ours from 2013.

MPs are getting about the same money as the lost state pension payout, as an 11 per cent pay rise in 2015.

The above has many errors in it and is just as difficult to read as Pension60's post so I wonder if it is the same person.

What does "From 2016 the Flat Rate Pension means forever losing food money" mean? I doesn't make any sense.

... and the next line: "No pension credit for new claimants". Is not true.
Pension Credit is not disappearing and will be available to people who fall into the same criteria as those getting the current pension. Those getting the full new pension will be getting one equal to or a little above the current pension plus Pension Credit so will have no need to claim Pension Credit. Is is calculated that, as more and more individuals have a full record of NI contributions, and this particularly applies to women are more coming through to pension age with full contributions, the number claiming Pension Credit will drop from 40% today to 10% by 2050.

This person keeps putting up mis-information. I am sure there will be issues with the new pension and it will not be a panacea for all but misleading rants do not help.

Your posts contain "misinformation" too, Gracesgran.

For example, it is not the case that "Anyone who gets less than the full amount will presumably not have made enough contributions. That is not a change".

Opting out used to mean that as you paid 1.5% less into the state scheme, you didn't have the SERPS/State Second Pension element added to your basic pension. Under the new scheme, the years one is opted out don't count towards the basic pension at all.

I have just had my pension forecast. I am 60 this week and won't get my pension until I'm 66. My statement shows that I have 41 qualifying years, based on my NI contribution record. My forecast is £103 under the new "flat rate" system. As I would have received more under the old system, transition arrangements mean that I will get that amount - £115.81. Quite a bit below the £148.40 per week that a lot of people think they will get after working 35 years. And of course, this is not guaranteed!

I don't want to argue the rights and wrongs of this. But I do think it's important that people do post "misleading rants" if the core information is useful - the original "rant" was what alerted me to the fact that despite working for 41 years, I will not be entitled to a full pension. This will apply to more than half the population and those who are going to be affected need to ask for their state pension forecasts to enable them to plan for the future. And they should do it sooner rather than later. I have had to wait 10 weeks for my statement, not the 10 working days quoted - I was told when I chased it up that some statements are taking several months. Because of the complexity of the new rules, there is no software in place to work them out, so they are all having to be done manually.

And here is the link to the Telegraph's report on the issue, as you said you'd like to read it:

www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/pensions/11338434/Less-than-half-of-workers-will-get-full-flat-rate-state-pension.html

And from the above, a quote from our Pensions Minister:

“I think I may have been guilty of oversimplifying the new flat rate state pension,” Mr Webb told this newspaper. “But as soon as you caveat this type of thing people switch off.

“I have no interest in people not getting what they expect. When I’ve spoken about new state pension before, I’ve focused on the longer-term, as eventually everyone will get the full single-tier if they have 35 years of national insurance contributions. For example, my son starts work in a few years time and he will get the flat-rate.

“In the meantime, some people will get more and others less than the full single-tier amount.”

NI contributions from 30 now to 35 years from 2016.

Since when has anyone got a full pension with 30 years contributions? As far as I knew it was always 39 years for women and 42 years for men.

And the full rate for 2015 is £115.95, which I, with fewer than 39 years contributions, will not get.

https://www.gov.uk/state-pension/eligibility

You need 30 years NI contributions or credits to claim the new state pension, it says.

Perhaps I will have a rant.

From what I can make out, the number of years' NI contributions needed to claim the full state pension was reduced in 2010. Presumably from 39 years?

That is quite a lot.

I am pre-1950s vintage.

So perhaps you don't need to rant, rose!

I do remember being a bit miffed when they reduced the number of years to 30, now I come to think about it, because I'd already worked for over 40 years...

I think you currently need 30 years Ana - that seems to have changed from 39 when I was claiming. If you click on the "new State Pension" link under "3. Eligibility" it takes you through to what you will need and that is 35.

I don't think the new pension should pay the SERPS amount when it has not been paid for particularly as it was because it would be paid into another pension which the person will get on top of their state pension. I find the extra years needed to work to 66 rather than 60 for Maggiemaybe a far greater argument as I feel pretty sure we were told that the extra years were to pay for the higher pension.

To be honest I just want a living pension (£10,000 ?) for all, taxed heavily off the highest incomes but that's just my opinion.

Thank you for the link Maggiemaybe. I had found it but it always help to read directly. I do find rants or copy and pasting - this person has been doing exactly the same on other forums I follow - is not really what I like about forums where the discussion tends to be better when it is two way.

I can't see where it says 35, Gracesgran - but I have now read the bit about women born before 1950 having to have 39 years...permission to rant, rose...

Yes, at some stage it went down to 30 years, now it's up again to 35 for the new scheme. What many people who will be affected won't realise is that whereas 30 years, even all opted out, will get you the full basic state pension under the current system, you need 35 not opted out to get the new basic state pension.

My concern is that people like me, who've done over 40, may just be assuming that they will get the new £145+ pension, which has been trumpeted as a flat rate pension for all.

Yes, the 6 year wait for the pension I always thought I would be getting at 60 is a very sore point with me, Gracesgran and I'm sure for everyone else caught in the net. I appreciate that every system has winners and losers, but it's never fun to be one of the latter!

I think I should have ranted a while ago - when it was reduced from 39 to 30 years!

I did read somewhere that they would be taking an average of £10 a week off some of us who are already receiving the state pension!

How true that is, I don't know...

But not allowed to rant on here.

It did need simplifying, it has become more complicated over the years because it has been tinkered with and not reformed until now and there are bound to be winners and losers each time it is changed.

What?

Is one person's rant another person's reasoned argument?

Eh?

True, rosequartz (re the simplifying). After the bedding-in period it should be much easier to understand and administer.

Well, I was going to start ranting about the free bus pass, which I won't get until I'm 66 unless I move to Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland, where the qualifying age is still 60, but I've decided to consider my blood pressure....

www.moneywise.co.uk/pensions/managing-your-pension/the-flat-rate-state-pension-what-it-means-you

This report actually explains things much better than Gov.UK and states that the number of qualifying years from 2016 will be 35 years, although some women have apparently been officially informed by the DWP that it will be 30 years!

It does sound as though it's going to be an absolute nightmare to administer for the first 40 years or so...

By then Ana it will all have changed again!

This is hugely complicated and like many, I'm only just catching up having got my pension forecast as long ago as 1995 and not having paid much attention since. Maggiemaybe what you've posted has been very helpful, thank you (and like you, at 61 I won't get my bus pass until I'm 66 and by then they will have abolished it I'm sure!).

The pages on the Age UK website are very helpful and offer a pension income calculator and a link to a site offering to find you an unbiased financial advisor.

In particular, this is helpful:

^Past contributions and the new State Pension

Although the new system is based on a single amount for everyone with at least 35 years of contributions, you may get more or less than the £148.40 if you have contributions or credits from before April 2016.

When the single-tier pension is introduced in 2016, anyone who has already built up a NI record will have a ‘starting amount’. This will be the higher of:

the amount you would have received under the current system including basic and additional pension
the amount you would get if the new State Pension had been in place at the start of your working life.
A deduction will be made from the starting amount if you have been in a ‘contracted out’ personal or workplace pension scheme – for example if you have been a member of a public sector pension. In this case normally you will have paid lower NI contributions because you were paying into a contracted out pension instead

If your 'starting amount' is more than the level of the new State Pension, due to the basic and additional pension you have already built up, any amount over £148.40 will be protected and paid in addition to the single-tier pension when you reach State Pension age.

If your starting amount is less than £148.40 you may be able to build up more pension for any years of contributions or credits between 6 April 2016 and when you reach State Pension age.^

I am still working through the complexities. It's all very well some saying its swings and roundabouts but these changes are going to hit some very hard indeed and we need to find out what we can do now to affect things politically.