Bailing out family member again!

We continuously bailed out a family member till Jan 2015. We watched our savings steadily lessen. It was the last straw.

Now all is on a level footing. A relief to all concerned

Posted too soon.
Synonymous's advice is good, as are others who talk about how to set limits organise finances. Tough love is needed.

If they were short of money for reasons beyond their control I would be more sympathetic and willing to assist.

I agree with synonymous I think Beattie is being too kind. There is being short of money because income is low but if you can afford to buy big holidays and designer clothers etc but cannot afford the bills you are living beyond your means. S

My old neighbour had a saying - "rags to rags in three generations". People need to know hardship in order to learn how to overcome it. Continually drawing money out from the Bank of Mum and Dad teaches adult children nothing.

But if the children have been brought up to expect to have everything they want..... I heard a very sad interview on the radio a few weeks ago. A retire couple were explaining that because they had had impoverished childhoods when they had a good income they gave their children everything they wanted, thinking they were giving them opportunities they never had. Instead, they said, their children were now in their 40s and still expecting their parents to fund things they couldn't afford but had bought anyway.

The parents said they had finally decided that the time had come for them to put themselves first. They had told their children that they would bail them out no longer and stuck to it and as a result they hardly ever saw them. The wife said as an afterthought, 'we thought we were doing the best for them, but we were wrong weren't we.'

The sad thing is Wilma, the families just don't see their own selfishness and I think it is downright unacceptable to be taking money from your aged parents, the sons and daughters should be supporting them ! Not the other way about.

Cher53 the reason my late Dad didn't want to marry my Step-Mum was her family. He didn't want them to get their hands on his money. They treat her like dirt when it comes money and take advantage in so many ways. She worked, but not in a well paid job and had a mortgage. All three of them are still sponging off her even now when she's in her 70s. Her son moved in after his marriage broke down and he pays for nothing even though he is in a well paid job. The two daughters are both married with children and regularly go shopping with my Step-Mum, adding things to the trolley knowing they won't pay for them - even big packs of nappies. It's how she brought them up and the GC think she's wonderful because she buys them things. I can't help but think she's i debt herself because she gives so much to her family.

I do not lend money to anyone and especially not family. My parents-in-law bailed out and bailed out and bailed out their sons and daughters for years(not just pennies either,£1000s), and when they got old and elderly and needed help with things (not money,practical things) where were they all? They were nowhere to be seen apart from me, my husband and one or two more distant relatives. My parents-in-law got all their thanks in one basket and the family learned nothing, they are still getting into monetary sh** to this day.

I have gifted money or loaned on a very odd occasion, in a one off emergency or something like that. I had years of having my husbands family at our door to borrow money, that was the only time we ever saw them, they never came for a visit or to see how WE were, it was always some disaster or crisis, usually a money one. When the cash machine that was my parents-in-law dried up, so did the visits. The same when we refused them money, the visits stopped when we would not drop everything and lend them cash. I would also like to add they were then earning a damn sight more than the both of us.

I have come to the conclusion that if you lend once, they just keep coming back and assuming it will happen all the time. The trouble with my husbands siblings they all wanted a film star lifestyle, but didn't have the earnings to do that. My husband and I now live off a pension, so don't have the means to lend to anyone now.

Beattie there could be a long wait to see someone at the CAB, especially just after Christmas. You might be better off telling them to get in touch with one of the big debt charities like CAP or StepChange which will be able to help them now. It just takes one phone call to take that first step.

CAP

StepChange

One important thing to stress is there's absolutely no need to pay for help. There's a lot of companies who offer help, but charge for the service.

There's an organisation CAP, Christians Against Poverty who will work with people in debt whilst helping them to be realistic, learning about budgeting and money management without being judgemental. I know several people who had got themselves into serious debt and who are now walking much taller and managing their lives more effectively. If you Google CAP you'll be able to access more info.

One of mine actually offered me a loan a year or so ago. Tables turned!

When she was a student DD2 once rang and asked for some money to tide her over. She had looked in my little pot of cash in the kitchen and it was empty.
Unfortunately we were camping on the Scilly Isles at the time and had no way of transferring any money to her account.
That taught her

I have never ever given DC money when they have got into a financial mess. I have only lent it to them with a tight repayment agreement, which I kept them to. As a result since they graduated and started working they have run their lives circumspectly. I had seen too many friends bailing their children out and the more they bailed the more they were asked for help

I have given DC money at various times, either because I had a windfall or legacy or because I could see they were potentially in a tight spot and a little extra might help.

Constantly bailing children out is killing them with kindness.

DS2 and his GF got engaged in the Maldives, bespoke ring, etc. A year or so later they honeymooned in Hong Kong and Borneo. He said, 'We haven't got any money, Mum'. Mum smiled sympathetically.

On those occasions when we have helped out, we have always insisted on a pay back plan, eg. so much each month for x months till it's paid off. That way, they don't ask very often (not at all, nowadays as they're more settled and earning more).

And we don't feel too put upon....

I really wanted a Swarovski watch. It was the 'bling' one with the diamonte strap, and not cheap.

I dropped hints for Christmas but people bought me other things.

I could have bought myself one, a new coat and a designer handbag and some Ugg boots. I could have had a nice new hairdo, plus I could have had a spa day somewhere posh, and afternoon tea at Harvey Nicks in Leeds with the money I have 'lent' out since Christmas to a family member.

I won't get the money back and don't expect it nor want it, but I could also have had that watch............. it was within my grasp........

Never lend money to a family member if you expect it back.

Never allow anyone to think you can afford to lend it if they keep on bleeding you dry because one day you will be as dry as a bone.

When they call, don't answer your mobile, is another good one

Good advice from a weak woman

When you say your children would be mad it makes me think you know it is wrong to help. I worked in debt management for a while and the best help you can give is to say no. That way they need to cut their cloth accordingly and realise they can't open more than they have coming in. To the OP re vets bills I would have insisted they now take out pet insurance as you will not pay any more bills for them. Please don't think of this as tough love the best love is nurturing everyone into responsible independent adults

Oh Wendy I know how you feel !!!! I really miss my husband desperately at times like this as he was always the tough, logical one. Also the utterly maddening thing is that all my children have grown into wonderful, straight, honest, hard working and independent people to whom I turn on occasions for advice. Sadly can't do it in this instance, they would be mad!!!

Beattie
Clearly you learned the lesson from experiencing being broke. I know I did and vowed I would never be in that position again, and haven't been. We were brought up to understand that if you couldn't afford something you either saved up, or didn't have it. As others have said tough love is hard to deliver but why should you bankroll their life style? I think you have resolved you own dilemma by drawing a line in the sand this time. Queues maybe a hassle but are s fact of life! Good luck

I wish I knew Beattie. Just forked out £800, AGAIN, for surgery on their dog. Can't do tough love. Have MUG written on my forehead. I know what to do but can't do it

To all you lovely 'gransnetters' a big thank you for your responses. A problem shared is a problem halved, they say. I think the only answer to this, actually rather more complex, problem is to insist that there will be no further assistance until they go to CAB or like, as suggested by many of you.
Wish me luck!

Tough love is the only answer really. Once you have said "no" a couple of times they stop asking. I didn't mind so much lending the money, it was getting it back that caused issues. There will always be desperate pleases for help, just bite the bullet and say no, it does work.

Have you ever thought that it is not kind to bail people out as they never learn to be independent? Perhaps that thought might aid you to offer 'tough love', that is advice and emotional support rather than cash. It is only pain that teaches us to be wary. Constant bailing out prolongs the agony and pushes the 'learning' further away. No one has ever said a truer word on debt and loans than Shakespeare through Polonius' advice to his son:-
"Neither a borrower nor a lender be,
For loan oft loses both itself and friend,
And borrowing dulls the edge of husbandry."

In practical terms the CAB, as others have noted, is a good place to find advice on money management and repaying debt. Also the Martin Lewis 'Moneyfacts' website is a mine of information about saving cash. In particular it has a forum for debtors entitled 'Debt Free Wannabe' where those trying to free themselves from financial entanglement offer mutual support and really good advice about how to pay down debt and learn to live within one's means.

There is so much help available to sort out debt problems these days. It's free and lots of it is online, so in the early stages you don't have to talk to anyone about your situation if you choose not to do so.

What it does require is the person facing facts about their income and outgoings. The advice explains how to prepare a budget statement of your circumstances, so you can see how much of your income can be used to pay off your debt (if any). This is needed to send to creditors to explain your circumstances. The advice also explains how to prioritise your outgoings and debt, to avoid losing your home or ending up in court. This alone usually results in a big shock because things are usually worse than you think. It takes time to carry out this first stage, it's not a quick process.

This country has millions of people in debt. I can recommend the

MSE Debt Advice

and

MSE debt management message board

to anyone who wants more information and non-judgemental support about how to start facing up to their money problems.

The sooner they start the better. You are not doing them any favours if they don't face up to the basic problem. Help them to help themselves.

Wise words eloethan.
I would help out if someone was facing losing their home, or literally couldn't afford to eat or heat the home, but I wouldn't fund holidays or subscriptions to Sky television etc.

Beattie I have a friend whose daughter is constantly getting into financial difficulties. It seems to me that she has a spending addiction. Normally, I would say a person like this should get some sort of psychotherapy or counselling. But as I've come to the conclusion that she either has a mild learning disability and/or a personality disorder, I'm not sure that it would be of much use.

My friend (who was widowed some years ago) has helped her out very many times but does sometimes refuse if the "demands" are totally unreasonable, such as she "must" have a holiday. When my friend refuses, her daughter becomes very abusive.

Whatever the situation, I think there must come a point where "enough is enough". If it were me, I would probably help (as far as I am able, i.e. without severely affecting my own financial position) on this occasion but I would say - and stick to it - that it is absolutely the last time I am willing to bail them out. I might also suggest that they go to one of the voluntary debt management organisations and ask for help in setting up a budget, and advice as to how to maintain it.