Bailing out family member again!

My DS's SIL and BIL are constantly getting into enormous debt as a result of their ridiculous spending habits. Both sets of parents have bailed them out more than once but I think the safety net has at last been withdrawn. I can't see what else would help, apart from a kick up the bum.

Its got to be tough love Beattie, if you really can't do it today then make it absolutely clear this is the last time they are to approach you for help..some people need to hit the bottom before they WAKE UP!! good luck

I don't think I could ever turn down a family members cry for help, no matter how often I had helped in the past. Blood is most definitely thicker than water and I could not relax knowing that I had turned them away in their time of great need.

I appreciate it can be annoying when they don't seem to "learn by their previous mistakes" but unless they were living over extravagantly (at my expense) I would carry on offering to help, assuming of course that I was in the position to do so.

I don't do "tough love" tanith

I am like you gillybob but part of me is Mad because they are just not facing the reality of life today i.e. If you don't pay a fine it escalates out of control, etc. stating they need private medical attention as the NHS wont help!!!!!!!!

Beattie You sound a lovely caring person but sometimes you have to get serious in order to stop your family getting into terrible difficulties later.
Had you thought about putting this on a formal footing as you might be the only person who can help them to start budgeting properly? Perhaps you should make it clear that you expect the money back by writing it all down and getting them to sign an agreement to pay it back at so much per month. They may even feel better doing this and it would help avert family squabbles which can be truly devastating.
CAB can help with this and would help them with debt management and even with freezing interest and much more. You may be the only person clear sighted enough to help in this way and perhaps you would be wise to go and see someone at the CAB yourself first to work out the way to do it. My best wishes to you.

tanith you are spot on!

Yes the couple I mentioned go to Disney every year buy designer all sorts have gone through one set of parents entire savings. Continual help would not be right.

Oh thank you synonymous, such wise words! I have repeatedly asked them to try CAB for help but the answer is always - hopeless you have to gueue for ages! The trouble is what will change the 'mindset' and I am loathe to intrude too much. I am so, so lucky to be solvent but will never ever forget being really broke.

I presume rock bottom changes the mindset for some.

It is quite easy to become an enabler for some people in some situations.

obieone Oh yes!

enabling is definitely what comes to mind.

As long as they keep getting bailed out they will not sort themselves out. My brother and his wife used my parents as a source of money for years, I used to get so angry with both him for asking and them for paying. The times Dad gave them cash only to find they'd paid off the Sky tv bill to keep it going or broadband/mobile phones etc. Finally last year my father told him no more and actually stuck to it, strangely they haven't bothered visiting every week like they used to... says it all really.

I was just thinking, thankfully, that DH & I hadn't had to bail out DD & DS, when I suddenly remember that DH bailed out his uncle, some years ago. He is a retired teacher & had made a rather misguided "investment" . We then found out that he had taken his family to Miami -bloody--cheek- ! So DD , urged on by me, asked for the money back, it was a considerable sum !

I have a brother like that - he sponged on my parents all his life, and then on me for a while. Hard to say no, but NO it is from now on.

Is it "helping" to bail out people repeatedly? If there is a genuine unforeseen crisis, or circumstances beyond someone's control, yes I would help. I have done this. If it was repeated requests for money when the person concerned had just been foolish about their choices, then no I probably wouldn't, at least not without evidence of changes in behaviour, because in the long run everyone should learn to be responsible. It's not love to let someone avoid the consequences of their actions.

We have done this more than once for DD1 and I'm afraid the well has run dry . At least in terms of immediate responses.

I am a firm believer that you only learn through 'bought experience' . They need to feel the pain because otherwise it's almost like there are no consequences to their behaviour and therefore nothing to stop them doing the same thing over and over.

In the early years we would bail them out and say 'no don't pay us back just get yourself sorted'

Then it was' OK what can you afford to pay us back per month' and after a few months we would write the debt off.

Then it was 'ok but you MUST pay us back' which would start well and inevitably peter off unpaid before the end.

Now I have retired and our income, whilst more than sufficient for us is dramatically reduced. I have said 'no more' . Our DSiL is nearly 50 years old, time to man up I'm afraid !!

Obviously if it was very serious at some stage we would likely help but it has to hurt them first. They manage their money so badly not because they can't manage but because they can't be bothered. So I'm afraid the onus must be on them. Im tougher than my DH

I agree with Tresco its not love to facilitate them. Maybe taking a hard line will be the shock they need?

In note that you are loathe to "intrude" Beattie, but they seem happy to intrude on your bank balance! So I think you should intrude away to your heart's content.

Tell them that you have decided that any further help will be in the form of a loan with a formal repayment schedule to be signed and agreed with a regular bank transfer set up.

Beattie I have a friend whose daughter is constantly getting into financial difficulties. It seems to me that she has a spending addiction. Normally, I would say a person like this should get some sort of psychotherapy or counselling. But as I've come to the conclusion that she either has a mild learning disability and/or a personality disorder, I'm not sure that it would be of much use.

My friend (who was widowed some years ago) has helped her out very many times but does sometimes refuse if the "demands" are totally unreasonable, such as she "must" have a holiday. When my friend refuses, her daughter becomes very abusive.

Whatever the situation, I think there must come a point where "enough is enough". If it were me, I would probably help (as far as I am able, i.e. without severely affecting my own financial position) on this occasion but I would say - and stick to it - that it is absolutely the last time I am willing to bail them out. I might also suggest that they go to one of the voluntary debt management organisations and ask for help in setting up a budget, and advice as to how to maintain it.

Wise words eloethan.
I would help out if someone was facing losing their home, or literally couldn't afford to eat or heat the home, but I wouldn't fund holidays or subscriptions to Sky television etc.

There is so much help available to sort out debt problems these days. It's free and lots of it is online, so in the early stages you don't have to talk to anyone about your situation if you choose not to do so.

What it does require is the person facing facts about their income and outgoings. The advice explains how to prepare a budget statement of your circumstances, so you can see how much of your income can be used to pay off your debt (if any). This is needed to send to creditors to explain your circumstances. The advice also explains how to prioritise your outgoings and debt, to avoid losing your home or ending up in court. This alone usually results in a big shock because things are usually worse than you think. It takes time to carry out this first stage, it's not a quick process.

This country has millions of people in debt. I can recommend the

MSE Debt Advice

and

MSE debt management message board

to anyone who wants more information and non-judgemental support about how to start facing up to their money problems.

The sooner they start the better. You are not doing them any favours if they don't face up to the basic problem. Help them to help themselves.

Have you ever thought that it is not kind to bail people out as they never learn to be independent? Perhaps that thought might aid you to offer 'tough love', that is advice and emotional support rather than cash. It is only pain that teaches us to be wary. Constant bailing out prolongs the agony and pushes the 'learning' further away. No one has ever said a truer word on debt and loans than Shakespeare through Polonius' advice to his son:-
"Neither a borrower nor a lender be,
For loan oft loses both itself and friend,
And borrowing dulls the edge of husbandry."

In practical terms the CAB, as others have noted, is a good place to find advice on money management and repaying debt. Also the Martin Lewis 'Moneyfacts' website is a mine of information about saving cash. In particular it has a forum for debtors entitled 'Debt Free Wannabe' where those trying to free themselves from financial entanglement offer mutual support and really good advice about how to pay down debt and learn to live within one's means.

Tough love is the only answer really. Once you have said "no" a couple of times they stop asking. I didn't mind so much lending the money, it was getting it back that caused issues. There will always be desperate pleases for help, just bite the bullet and say no, it does work.

To all you lovely 'gransnetters' a big thank you for your responses. A problem shared is a problem halved, they say. I think the only answer to this, actually rather more complex, problem is to insist that there will be no further assistance until they go to CAB or like, as suggested by many of you.
Wish me luck!

I wish I knew Beattie. Just forked out £800, AGAIN, for surgery on their dog. Can't do tough love. Have MUG written on my forehead. I know what to do but can't do it

Beattie
Clearly you learned the lesson from experiencing being broke. I know I did and vowed I would never be in that position again, and haven't been. We were brought up to understand that if you couldn't afford something you either saved up, or didn't have it. As others have said tough love is hard to deliver but why should you bankroll their life style? I think you have resolved you own dilemma by drawing a line in the sand this time. Queues maybe a hassle but are s fact of life! Good luck