Loosing winter fuel allowance

How any person with a moral compass could vote Conservative is a mystery to me

It will cost a fortune to means test. Remove from those who live outwith the country. I'm sure TM and her husband have been happy to pocket their winter fuel allowance.
They have decided the older voters don't matter. They will soon be gone and those who aren't will have forgotten how awful the Tories have been by the next election. That is a a quote.

Some of us are Single Households just above PC level and rely on that bit extra. If PC is used as I suspect that will leave quite a few people just above worse off.

That is a lovely thought dumdum but it has been shown that the universalism of this type of benefit is the best mechanism for getting this to those who need it.

You may remember that this was how the original child allowance was paid. With everyone getting it no sense of stigma or pride would get in the way of people accepting it.

I know someone who will not claim PC or the disability allowances she should because she 'has taken enough from the NHS'. She is extremely and complexly ill, both with mental challenges and life threatening physical ones, but she does get the winter fuel allowance which helps pay for the bottled gas the site owner sells to her at a profit as she lives in a park home. These people exist and exist in such large numbers we still have to continue to bring up the basic pension (many older women in particular only get a proportion of that) and at least add a little in for heating.

What worries me is when any party has so much power they feel they have the right to do anything they want.

And it's wrong to have winter fuel allowance in Scotland but not in England. What about the temperatures in Berwick on Tweed, are they warmer than on the other side of the border?

I know this is not the issue being discussed but I am particularly against removing free school lunches for infants. Now that's another serious health concern.

roseared Labour's manifesto is fully costed, not so the Tories. You don't improve an economy from taking money out of the bottom and flooding those at the top with it.
Even if Labour can only do 75% of what they want to, at least they want to rebuild social structure and infrastructure rather than increasing divisions and inequality.

They don't seem to have worked out exactly how they will means test it yet. Experts have said that the only way to do it which will don't cost more than it saves will be to allow it to only to anyone who gets pension credit. The problem with that is that pension credit brings people up to the basic state pension so they would be getting more than people who get the same amount of state pension.
The need seems to be more about where people live that the amount they receive. I live in London and my flat is very warm even in the Winter. I pay a fixed charge for storage heaters throughout the year. Compare that to someone who lives in the North where heavy snow is more common and they will probably spend more than that on heating. I save mine towards the help I am going to be needing before long.

Wonder how many MP's receive heating allowance and how many in the Lords

We don't really need it, but would love it to be given to those who really need it. Hypothermia can be a real issue for some people, particularly those who cannot move around much.

Much as bus passes and railcards and fuel allowances are very nice to receive, I admit some of us don't need them, so fair dos if someone takes them off us

Not sure on this ww and stand to be corrected.
Scotland provides free personal care in a way that (WM) doesn't. Schools and NHS Scotland are set up differently. 'Right to buy' has been abolished. Higher rate tax begins at £40k and not £43k as in England.

I was not aware of Hollywood's devolved powers extending to the DWP but know that NS will no longer employ ATOS or other private companies for benefit assessments.

I assume therefore that treating WFA differently is just another option open to Holyrood.

"When I said as much on another thread, my view was vehemently opposed."

We are not discussing whether you like tea of coffee Cuncu we are discussing people's welfare and, in extreme circumstances, life and death. You have expressed a prejudice (an opinion without the backing of fact). If you expressed your view in the same way on the other thread I am not surprised it was opposed.

It was designed to win votes and no government has not dared to change it until now. In my view.

It has certainly been a popular allowance but that is not why it was introduced although it helps any party if a measure is well accepted. A great deal of research had been done on fuel poverty before this was introduced and people were dying because they couldn't heat their homes. It was introduced as a universal benefit because a great deal of research - not just prejudiced opinion - has shown that this is the best way to get a benefit to the people who actually need it and, as a third of people who should be getting Pension Credit do not take it up, it is reasonable to assume that is right. It has also been shown in the past that universal benefits can, overall, cost less, as the administration costs of means testing can make a small benefit extremely expensive.

This is not a joke nor are those of us in favour of keeping it point scoring. To many of us, rather than scoring points we just want people not to die of the cold in the 5th richest country in the world.

If the Conservatives offered a living pension to all (around £11,000) I would happily see this benefit go but while they only offer Pension Credit as a means tested benefit that a third of people, who should get it don't, then this is a support for those living on just over £8,000 if they get PC and a lot less if they don't claim it. Poverty is not funny nor should it be used simply for point scoring.

As Durhamjen has said elsewhere, the Conservatives hope to save £1.5 million from the £2 million cost of the WFA.
I have tried to find out what percentage of pensioner households currently recieve Pension Credit, to see if this supports the view that WFA will be limited to this group. (If it is around 25%, we probably have our answer) However, to do this, i needed to know how many pensioner households there are, but couldn't find that figure. Total number of pensioners, yes, but not 'households'.
I don't suppose any of you have managed to do the maths on this one, have you?

Means testing is overly complicated, expensive to administer and results in many people who ought to get the benefit not applying for it. People on basic state pensions need more money and its scandalous that many choose between eating and keeping warm.
I don't need the winter fuel allowance and give it to family members who do. I suspect many people who have a private pension alongside their state pension do as I do and also give to charity because we recognise we're fortunate. Jeremy Corbyn was asked about his opposition to the proposal to means test. He confirmed that wealthier pensioners will have paid a lot of tax during their working lives and will still be doing so. Surely, that's a more straight forward approach?

I agree Cunco but GrandmaKT also has a point. It's difficult to legislate for all groups I suppose.

The Fuel Allowance is like a Poll Tax in reverse and an equally bad idea. It was designed to win votes and no government has not dared to change it until now. In my view, it would be better to scrap the Fuel Allowance altogether and use the funds to help people in greatest need through extra funding of care or increasing pensions which are at least subject to tax for the better off.

When I said as much on another thread, my view was vehemently opposed. As it happens, that was before it was part of Conservative Manifesto, so I am reaching for my hard hat now.

Yes ww I'm looking forward to the TM fan club explaining that one away. ??

Oh! so what's so special about the Scottish wealthy, that they can retain the winter fuel allowance?!!!!!

The manifesto should have said how they intend to means test it- I honestly can't think how on earth it can be done in a way that makes sense other than via PC. Can anyone else?

I agree that not everyone needs the winter fuel allowance. My DH has a good pension, so we have always given ours (his!) to elderly relatives who really do need it. I think linking it to pension credit would be a step too far though, there are many pensioners struggling to make ends meet who don't qualify for pension credit. The winter fuel allowance is a very valuable little extra for them.

I still have doubts about voting, think the same as charley

Indeed charley.

......or promising to!!

I have never not voted in my life but this year I genuinely do not know what to do. The result will be very close where I live and I feel that it is a waste of a vote voting for the real minorities. In my view one manifesto is draconian for our age group and the other is handing out candy bars.

Damned predictive texting. Should have been WFP, not WAP.