Father's widow lying about the existence of a will

When my husband and I made our wills at the solicitors, they were printed out ...given to us to proof read and check all was correct then two members of staff witnessed them. We were each given a copy of our own wills in sealed envelopes to keep and told they kept copies themselves but lodged the originals with the London Probate office. I thought this was the norm having never made a will before.

kathy in your shoes I would be worried about her trying to get rid of as much of the estate as possible to convince you it’s not worth pursuing.

She owes you a third of his estate at the date of his death regardless of how much of it she’s spent or given away since then.

Get more legal advice on the costs of pursuing this and decide if the third of the estate is worth more than the legal costs.

Good luck.

Good luck with this one. In the late 1990s when my father died my then separated stepmother contested the will. It spent nearly a year back and forth with solicitors as she tried to get the will overturned as it was in my son's favour. In the end she only settled out of court when I threatened High Court regardless of cost. In fact no one would have got anything but by that stage I wanted it over to properly grieve. I probably made wrong decisions. But do take solicitor's advice.

I am so pleased that your inheritance problem has been resolved but I do wish that ALL second wives and husbands are not constantly branded as lying gold diggers, it’s simply not true.

There are some greedy and malicious people around, including SOME second wives and husbands, AND certainly including some adult children, step or otherwise. Many second wives have been treated very badly by their ‘step’ relations including adult children, aunts, uncles and others.

People need to face up to the prospect of dying, leave a proper will or whatever legal instrument they decide on and stop hiding their head in the sand.

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There is no law that anyone has to register a will. No doubt many people's estates are treated as if they died intestate, but they didn't. My sister wrote her will on the back page of a book, in the last week of her life, and gave it to me to keep safe. I could have simply destroyed it if I'd wanted to, and nobody would have been the wiser.

I thought you could have wills registered with the Probate office or something like that? I am about to do a DIY will ( divorced years ago, three adult children to inherit equally, no other bequests so very simple) ne I found a reference to some gvt office in Manchester where I can have the will registered and possibly stored. I have not looked into it further yet but will do soon. Has anyone else heard of this?

I've ensured that if I die before DH, my half of the house and my assets are in trust for AC. If DH were to inherit all of my assets on my death, these would then be part of his estate, and be used for his care, which he would require if I wasn't here. I accept that his own assets will be needed for his care, but hate the thought that mine would be used too.

We had a friend of my MIL who made a will and left a copy with a local solicitor leaving everything to my MIL or my husband as he had fallen out with his family years ago. When my MIL died suddenly of cancer, although my DH tried to be helpful to her friend, he was somewhat of a recluse and so, struggling with his own grief, DH backed off. One day, within a year of his Mum's death, he suddenly noticed the house was for sale so I went to the Estate Agent to ask which home the gentleman was in. That was when we found he had apparently died intestate, The Crown's Solicitor had put it on the Intestacy List and one these Heir Hunters had tracked down his supposed list. Nobody had contacted the solicitors in our small town and it turned one of them had the will. I was staggered to find that it is not incumbent on the authorities to check more thoroughly. Even the neighbours they'd checked with had explained they were new to the area but the rest of the street were long standing residents who knew each other well. Had they asked at any other house, they would have found that the Gentleman definitely had a will and would have known the solicitor too. Instead, they had heirs who weren't really heirs so felt they'd been fleeced and the real heir who knew that there were 'treasures' that were definitely missing by the time he knew about it. I think you should be required to register a will at a central place in order for it to be valid and have to go through a process to ensure you remove it if you change your mind.

I want to echo Craicons points above about trust arrangements for children.

I am not currently practising, but you can bet your behind I had a trusted colleague draw up our wills and trusts for the children.

Yes, it costs a few hundred pounds upfront, but you have peace of mind that should anything happen, you have protected the position of people close to you.

You cannot rely on anyone “honouring” the intention of the deceased when it comes to money. There is a reason so many family feuds have a disputed inheritance at the bottom of them.

OK, thought I'd update you all, thank you for your replies.

I have spoken to the solicitor and the will has been revoked as they married after he made it . So it appears she wan't lying ( I'll have to go to confession now) My siblings and I are now entitled to a third of the estate. I am now in the process of obtaining a copy of the Letter of Grant of Administration so we we can find out what the estate is worth and who her solicitors are. I still don't think it's going to be easy. I'd rather we didn't go down the legal route but I doubt there's any other way. She has ignored us all for 12 months. Thanks again for your help.

You need to go and see a good solicitor.

Lots of the anger in these situations is directed at the second or final spouse or partner who is seen to benefit at the expense of the deceased person's own children. However responsibility really lies with the deceased person who either didn't make a valid will that reflected their wishes regarding their biological children or actually chose to leave the estate to the surviving spouse and their family by a directive in the will or as the result of a default distribution such as occurs when a person dies without a valid will. It may be easier to blame the beneficiary rather than face the often hurtful reality of the actions or inaction of the deceased person.

I believe that often the fundamental issue is people's fear of dying and a refusal to face and deal with the associated issues. Or sometimes people just couldn't be bothered or procrastinated until it was too late. As someone who spent years sorting out the mess my own father left I vowed I would never subject my own children to such a situation. I can sympathise with those who feel aggrieved and forgotten and some may have redress in the law but most won't have that option and as several posters have said they were relieved of a lot of money along the way.

I can only urge all Grans to make sure you have a valid will and store the original with a lawyer, not at home or with family members. Do not make a "do it yourself" will. It's a false economy. Make sure information is left providing the location of the will with your personal papers. Ideally all beneficiaries should know in advance what the will directs but there may be situations where this is not possible or advisable. A properly drawn up will is the only way to be confident that your estate will be distributed as you want it to be - whatever that may be. Just do it!

A mirror will is an old fashioned style of will that was almost like a bogof offer. It meant that instead of drafting complex trusts, a single simple will could be drawn up and there would be a near identical version for the spouse.
They’re actually a BAD IDEA for second marriages, in particular.
Unfortunately, it’s assumed that the surviving spouse will follow the wishes of the deceased spouse but there is nothing in law that can compel them to do so, once they have inherited. If the spouse decides to give everything away to the local cat charity, there is nothing you can legally do to stop them.
The only way to ensure that your children will inherit is to set up a trust instrument.
That’s why it makes sense to get a wills & trusts specialist solicitor to draw up your will.
Especially in Ireland where I’ve met some disastrous solicitors, who really should have been struck off for their disgraceful incompetence.

Oh dear, how often have I heard this? It has even happened to my own husband. The problem is that there are many ways round a will. The most tried and tested being putting it on the fire. I don't always think solicitors are safe either. In my husbands case , the solicitor concerned lost the will when they were taken over by another firm!

Re marriage is a big issue. In my husbands case he eventually got a couple of thousand pounds. The house in the will belonged to his aunt and was not transferred to his uncle on her death but he re married and the new wife left all to her grandchild...…. the problem was my husband had loaned his aunt £11,000 to buy the house and had not had it back but was left a portion of the house in her will instead.

The will was lost and the new wife's solicitor actually transferred the house to her possession, by some move or other..... his uncle had never filed for his wife's death either as an intestacy or with a will. IN his own will, he was silent on the house.

But oh what a web!

Intestacy is no guarantee either but in some ways better as no one messes with the government rules. Having said that though, many a relative pops into a house and takes off with belongings and money and many other things. I have been on the end of that.

I am jaded about wills. I have no will. The law will suffice in my case. I have no family I want to see get anything . If I am dead before OH then he can have the lot and he can decide ( and I keep a lot of it in joint names for that reason). If I am left, I may well have to make different arrangements.

But a will is no guarantee of anything. Its nothing more than a list of wishes. People often ignore wish lists unfortunately.

You’re better off not finding the will!
Under Irish law, if you die intestate a third passes to the children but if he wrote a will leaving his entire estate to his wife, she will inherit everything and then she’s at liberty to write a new will leaving the (her) entire estate just to her children.
You’re actually better off if she declares he died intestate as the law will protect you.

If your aunt was a witness, chattykathy, then have you spoken with her? (If she's still alive?)
She might remember the time/place she signed it, or might even have a copy?

From what others are saying it seems youre entitled to a third no matter what- but this has certainly given me some insight into when i make a will,which i do keep putting off.So what we learn is to ALWAYS make sure a copy of a will is left with (or original) a solicitor,so if it goes up in smoke the solicitor has it safe and sound.I hope you have a good outcome,chattykathy,as i cant understand why she would say there was no will,when surely she knows your father must have told you?or that thered be evidence of it somewhere in solicitors?also if a mirror will is as other post says,ussually for if theyve children together and they have not then could you not sue his lawyers for negligence as theyve advised your dad incorrectly?/not checked will is carried out as instructed?i dont know,but you could approach your own lawyers and enquire of the procedure?

This is all very frustrating, but you may find there is nothing you can do unless you have enough money to make a case in the High Court. My brother and sister have defrauded me out of more than £6k. I consulted a solicitor whose ignorance made the situation far worse and counsel who said they could help, took £700 in fees and then said the amount was too small to take action. The police don’t want to know and so it seems I just have to accept I’ll never get what my mother left to me.

Sorry should say father died in 2004

I feel for you my father died in 2014 and he left a will leaving everything to his second wife on condition that when she died the estate would be split between his 4 children. Probate was not applied for I was told this was because as everything went to her and they had a joint bank account it wasn’t needed. His children were given a small sum compared to the size if the estate when she sold the property some 7 years later. She has now died and left the estate to her son and a nephew and niece leaving nothing to my fathers other 3 children. There is nothing we can do about it but it does make me cross as she hadn’t followed his wishes

I hear this so often these days with 2nd marriages and it causes such pain and anguish. I think that people should financially protect their AC more as so many people seem to be gold diggers and looking for husbands/wives that they can inherit from. A dear friend of mine was devastated when she lost both parents within a year of each other. They had divorced and both had remarried and both her stepfather and stepmother were vile to my friend. Her stepfather even gave her mother’s jewellery away to his new girlfriend !! Instead of rightfully offering it to my friend and her sister. The stepmother banned my friend from visiting her father in hospital, so the Ward Sister even rang my friend to say when the coast was clear, as she had seen what an awful woman the step mum was. In my 2nd marriage I had made a will to ensure that my AC inherited everything, my share of the house, my savings, private pensions etc as I’d realised that my ex had a serious problem with spending money, and I needed to protect them. I also made sure they all had copies of my Will. So hope this works out well for you ....

It is not true that " in the UK to be valid a will needs to be witnessed by a solicitor" It must be witnesses and signed by two people who saw the testator make his/her own signature, but they can be anyone. Also, anyone can draw up their own will and sign it in the presence of two witnesses, stating clearly what they wish to happen to their possessions. It is however recommended that a solicitor is consulted because they know how to put it so that there are no ambiguities or loopholes that could result in someone believing (or claiming) that it means something that it doesn't and the testator's wishes not being followed.

You might be able to put a stop on the administration of the estate if you can show that there is a reasonable dispute about the existence of a will but you would have to state that you intent to pursue it in court if necessary. Your aunt would be a good witness and it would be helpful to contact the other witness if you know who it is. If there is a property you can lodge a caveat against it to prevent it being sold pending the dispute.

In England it is common for solicitors to put an advert in the Solicitors Gazette asking if any solicitors have knowledge of the existence of a Will for a named person. It won't be read by every solicitor but it is the best chance of it being seen. There must be something similar in Ireland and is worth a try.
If a solicitor has made a will he should have the final draft and hopefully a copy of the final signed will. It is obvious more difficult to get a copy accepted into Probate but by no means unheard of. The question would be whether he destroyed it himself which is what his wife would claim.
Sometimes, a threat of legal proceedings is enough to get a settlement. If not, then the costs set against the chances of success would probably dissuade most people from taking it further unless it is a substantial estate.

Good morning
We have a mirror will made in the Republic of Ireland.
My understanding is that upon death all assets are left to the remaining spouse and will only be used if both partners die and any instructions contained therein will be acted on. We were told if there is only one death then the survivor will need to make a new will to be acted on upon their death as they will own all assets. The reason for a mirror will is to protect assets for spouse as children are entitled to one third of the estate where no will is in place. You really need to see the contents of the will.