Father's widow lying about the existence of a will

When your father made his Will, did he tell you the name of the firm of Solicitors? If so, contact them.

Thinking about what I've just written, I imagine you've already thought of this and, if you knew the name of the firm, you'd have been in contact with them.

I think you ought to take the matter further somehow or other. Perhaps Citizens Advice could help you or you could ask any local firm of Solicitors.

Thank you, yes I have contacted the solicitors and I'm waiting for a call back. I just can't see how this could happen. Surely it means that anyone could just deny the existence of a will if they didn't like the contents? I'm hoping someone will tell me she's broken the law and she'll get a comeuppance

Well, if you mean that you've contacted the Solicitors where the Will was made, I think your father's widow is likely to be questioned.

If you mean that you have rung a local firm of Solicitors and are waiting for their response, this is still good as at least they will tell you the way forward.

Even if the response is not what you hope for, at least you will know the position.

There's something fishy here.

I've just checked, in Ireland a widow gets two thirds of the estate and his children get one third if he died intestate. ( in UK wife would get first £250,000 then shared.)

Did they actually make mirror wills or was there a caveat.
That might have given the house to the wife for her lifetime then to his children.
A mirror will is usual for a couple who have children together but if children are from a previous marriage they could be cut out completely. To counter that a second wife is often given a life interest, so on the second death his children benefit as they would if he hadn't remarried.

You do need to see that will, if it's not at the first solicitor try other local solicitors

Thank you all for your advice. Yes, it's the solicitor where they made the wills.
I was told it goes to the surviving spouse and anything left after their death to his 4 children and her 2. I have no idea if there was a caveat.
I can't really understand why she's said he had no will as we could claim the one third of the estate.

Presumably, you now know the way forward. I hope you're able to resolve things without too much unpleasantness.

Me too but I doubt it!

If the solicitor is holding a valid will for your father, you will be able to challenge the issue of the letters of administration.

Good luck and I hope you get the result you hope for.

There is nothing stopping anyone from destroying a will. They may have made wills at that solicitor's office, but if she had the original and she didn't like the contents, she could just destroy it.

My dear friend died, and her will was with her son. He didn't like the contents so he just got a lighter and burned it up.

A solicitor will normally keep a copy of a will especially if the estate is likely to be large, in the UK to be valid a will needs to be witnessesed by a solicitor and the family might not have any idea of its contents, not even the executors unless they are told.
A second wife with children from a previous marriage will try to enrich them by manipulating a will, solicitors are aware of this and will advise that specific provision is made for your own children rather than hers.

It is not a requirement for a solicitor to either draw up a Will, or to witness it, in England.
Any two adults can witness provided they are not beneficiaries within the Will (with a couple of additional minor restrictions, such as sanity),
The use of solicitors is recommended due to the precision of legal language. If a Will were to be challenged in court, the legal decision could rest on an incorrectly placed comma!

It sounds like 'obtaining a pecuniary advantage by deception', but wouldn't be better to go along with it and claim a third now. What's the betting the will then turns up?

Exactly my thoughts Dolcelatte

It beggars belief that someone could just destroy a will if they don't like the contents! What's the point of doing one!?

Good morning
We have a mirror will made in the Republic of Ireland.
My understanding is that upon death all assets are left to the remaining spouse and will only be used if both partners die and any instructions contained therein will be acted on. We were told if there is only one death then the survivor will need to make a new will to be acted on upon their death as they will own all assets. The reason for a mirror will is to protect assets for spouse as children are entitled to one third of the estate where no will is in place. You really need to see the contents of the will.

In England it is common for solicitors to put an advert in the Solicitors Gazette asking if any solicitors have knowledge of the existence of a Will for a named person. It won't be read by every solicitor but it is the best chance of it being seen. There must be something similar in Ireland and is worth a try.
If a solicitor has made a will he should have the final draft and hopefully a copy of the final signed will. It is obvious more difficult to get a copy accepted into Probate but by no means unheard of. The question would be whether he destroyed it himself which is what his wife would claim.
Sometimes, a threat of legal proceedings is enough to get a settlement. If not, then the costs set against the chances of success would probably dissuade most people from taking it further unless it is a substantial estate.

You might be able to put a stop on the administration of the estate if you can show that there is a reasonable dispute about the existence of a will but you would have to state that you intent to pursue it in court if necessary. Your aunt would be a good witness and it would be helpful to contact the other witness if you know who it is. If there is a property you can lodge a caveat against it to prevent it being sold pending the dispute.

It is not true that " in the UK to be valid a will needs to be witnessed by a solicitor" It must be witnesses and signed by two people who saw the testator make his/her own signature, but they can be anyone. Also, anyone can draw up their own will and sign it in the presence of two witnesses, stating clearly what they wish to happen to their possessions. It is however recommended that a solicitor is consulted because they know how to put it so that there are no ambiguities or loopholes that could result in someone believing (or claiming) that it means something that it doesn't and the testator's wishes not being followed.

I hear this so often these days with 2nd marriages and it causes such pain and anguish. I think that people should financially protect their AC more as so many people seem to be gold diggers and looking for husbands/wives that they can inherit from. A dear friend of mine was devastated when she lost both parents within a year of each other. They had divorced and both had remarried and both her stepfather and stepmother were vile to my friend. Her stepfather even gave her mother’s jewellery away to his new girlfriend !! Instead of rightfully offering it to my friend and her sister. The stepmother banned my friend from visiting her father in hospital, so the Ward Sister even rang my friend to say when the coast was clear, as she had seen what an awful woman the step mum was. In my 2nd marriage I had made a will to ensure that my AC inherited everything, my share of the house, my savings, private pensions etc as I’d realised that my ex had a serious problem with spending money, and I needed to protect them. I also made sure they all had copies of my Will. So hope this works out well for you ....

I feel for you my father died in 2014 and he left a will leaving everything to his second wife on condition that when she died the estate would be split between his 4 children. Probate was not applied for I was told this was because as everything went to her and they had a joint bank account it wasn’t needed. His children were given a small sum compared to the size if the estate when she sold the property some 7 years later. She has now died and left the estate to her son and a nephew and niece leaving nothing to my fathers other 3 children. There is nothing we can do about it but it does make me cross as she hadn’t followed his wishes

Sorry should say father died in 2004

This is all very frustrating, but you may find there is nothing you can do unless you have enough money to make a case in the High Court. My brother and sister have defrauded me out of more than £6k. I consulted a solicitor whose ignorance made the situation far worse and counsel who said they could help, took £700 in fees and then said the amount was too small to take action. The police don’t want to know and so it seems I just have to accept I’ll never get what my mother left to me.

From what others are saying it seems youre entitled to a third no matter what- but this has certainly given me some insight into when i make a will,which i do keep putting off.So what we learn is to ALWAYS make sure a copy of a will is left with (or original) a solicitor,so if it goes up in smoke the solicitor has it safe and sound.I hope you have a good outcome,chattykathy,as i cant understand why she would say there was no will,when surely she knows your father must have told you?or that thered be evidence of it somewhere in solicitors?also if a mirror will is as other post says,ussually for if theyve children together and they have not then could you not sue his lawyers for negligence as theyve advised your dad incorrectly?/not checked will is carried out as instructed?i dont know,but you could approach your own lawyers and enquire of the procedure?

If your aunt was a witness, chattykathy, then have you spoken with her? (If she's still alive?)
She might remember the time/place she signed it, or might even have a copy?

You’re better off not finding the will!
Under Irish law, if you die intestate a third passes to the children but if he wrote a will leaving his entire estate to his wife, she will inherit everything and then she’s at liberty to write a new will leaving the (her) entire estate just to her children.
You’re actually better off if she declares he died intestate as the law will protect you.