66 and not paid any national ins stamps

I am in total agreement with grandad1943. You have put fit so well.

He needs to advise the DWP international Deptartment in Newcastle regarding his return. His Spanish pension will be topped up to the Pension credit minimum of the UK if there is any to top up.

I am afraid Grandad1943, that as he has worked in an EC country he is entitled to UK benefits. Infact, if the UK chooses to take in any people pensioners, people with children etc,etc worldwide they are entitled to benefits immediately. That will also included NHS.

Where I live, you have to pay in for 5 years before you can claim benefits inc Jobseekers. I live in Portugal.

Regarding the NHS, Spain ranks 7th in the world whereas the UK ranks 18th. Portugal ranks 12th and I class this country as poor.

The glory’s of the EU.

I believe that I am typical of many in my early working life in that I found myself working long unsocial hours throughout the 1960s until the mid-1980s as an HGV driver. My limited income entierly went towards supporting our three growing children, but I also paid full tax and national insurance out of that income which I have never begrudged.

The above was and is still born of my firm belief that tax is what working people pay for a civilized society. My wife and I got very lucky around the time of the millennium in starting our own business and we are both now higher rate taxpayers. However, my attitude has not changed in regard to the need and requirement of taxation and never will.

I support British membership of the European Union and live in hope that it will be maintained. I also as a lifelong socialist support the current higher taxation and spending plans of the Labour Movement.

That stated, I also firmly believe that all who can work and contribute to the economy of this nation should do so and also while working provide for their retirement years should they feel they would wish to live a lifestyle above state pension provision in that retirement.

The European Union is not (as yet) a Federal state, although I feel I could support that should it be proposed in the correct structure, but at present it is not. Therefore, currently the EU is a collection of member states tied together by treaties and common directives, but in the main all still retain their own state systems of governance and taxation.

Until the above changes what any individual accrues, or not, in any separate EU member state by his or her working efforts should remain as assets in that state and be drawn as investments in that state. It should not be for any other member state to make provision for a person who has in no way contributed to that state.

The person who is the subject of the opening post has obviously I feel not made provision in Spain for an adequate retirement despite we are told having worked there throughout his adult life. He therefore now seeks to return to Britain in the hope that Britain as an EU member state can "top up" his self-made inadequate retirement provision.

That attitude is wrong in its entirety, and if any British State benefits are provided to him, that in itself is totally wrong. We have in this country people who have paid a substantial percentage of their hard earned income into our tax and National Insurance systems and are at present in retirement struggling to live almost on a day to day basis. Why then should this nation provide anything to the person who is the subject of this thread in that he only wishes to "play the system".

F**king Scum is the word I use in reference to such people and in that I make no apologies.

Damn! That's twice this week I've agreed with Grandad1943's posts!

And this is where we enter the ‘deserving poor’ territory Grandad1943......!

my own thought is that if any person of any nationality, coming to this country can claim NHS treatments, child benefit, housing benefit or job seekers allowance, why is pension credit any different for a returning British citizen?

Pantglas you are not entirely right about benefits:
fullfact.org/immigration/migration-and-welfare-benefits/

Grandad1942 I agree with you, apart from your last sentence, although I agree everyone should consider how they are going to fund their retirement before they actually retire.

Apologies doramarr, I actually meant ANY of those things rather than ALL of them.

I agree with Grandads first post.

But not the third para of his second.

Why should anyone who has lived and worked in Spain all their working life, decide to relocate here and have us pay for the priviledge. Milking the system. I feel sorry for those that have lived her and worked and bought up families struggling to make ends meet, they deserve help. Spain is his adopted country after all.

I agree. It could even be called ‘cherry picking’ or ‘having your cake and eating it’.

I bet he gets a SP here though. Lucky bugger is all I can say.

Crikey, what a load of judgemental replies on here. I merely answered the OP's question with (hopefully) helpful and factual information.

What makes people decide to be judge and jury? We don't even know the full story or circumstances involved, do we?

By the way, my friend has never worked as she has severe dyslexia. Try finding a job with that. She had twins at 18 and their father walked away. (There's a whole other story of injustice to consider - why was she instantly labelled a feckless single parent whereas he's a jack-the-lad and 'blameless' in society's eyes?)

The welfare state is a vital safety net in my view. I've never needed it but I've never resented paying into it either. I've always thought myself very lucky. Anyone, at any time, could suddenly find themselves ill, unemployed or disabled, so I'm glad that it's there!

The whole idea of paying into a 'pot' for pensions is flawed, anyway. There is no reserve. Pensions come from general taxation so, in fact, each generation pays for the one before. The idea of 'fairness' is voiced loudly by those who suspect that they pay more in than they will get back. Do these people resent those who live to a great age? I ask because pensions/pensioners are the biggest drain on the benefits system.

Pantglas2 Quote [And this is where we enter the ‘deserving poor’ territory Grandad1943......!]End Quote.

Pantglas2, in truth we do not know if the person who is the subject of this thread is in any way "deserving". It may have been that he has never earned sufficient to provide adequately for his retirement.

However, if the above circumstances are indeed the case, then surely he should have assessed his situation in his early middle age and then decided if remaining in Spain was a satisfactory option, or return to Britain in an effort to better secure his future. However, he obviously did no such assessment and now indeed may return to Britain as " underprivileged" and join the many who are in that situation due to no fault of their own in any way.

Persons classed by some as the "deserving poor" are the homeless, many of whom find themselves in that situation due to mental health issues. Those I feel should be supported to the utmost that this nation can provide. However, that is not the case. Here in North Somerset there was recently a BBC report in regard to such persons attending the social services in dire need of help but only being given a single man tent and a sleeping bag as the total physical assistance that they receive, even in the depths of winter.

In the above, does any forum member feel this nation should support the circumstances of this person returning from Spain better than that of those who have always resided in the UK and are truly this nations deserving poor?

My reference to ‘deserving poor’ is a dig at The tories who seem to think there are two classes of poor - the unfortunate and the feckless!

I don’t differentiate as I believe you either fit the criteria for claiming a benefit or you don’t - no judgment on how you got into a position of needing to claim.

Not everyone is blessed with good health, a good work ethic or even good financial acumen and using the language of the gutter to describe them does someone of your standing no credit Grandad1943. I genuinely had you down as more caring than that.

Hetty I am not aware that anybody was criticising your friend and nor should they. With twins to bring up she would of course be credited with NI contributions for the period he was looking after them. Nobody here has called her feckless and I hope nobody ever would.
But on a more optimistic note regarding dyslexia, I suspect Grandad could say more than most about overcoming that problem and still building a successful career

“She was looking after them” not “he” , bad mistake

Crikey.

No wonder the OP has not reappeared.

.

This website seems to be quite helpful:

www.litrg.org.uk/tax-guides/migrants/national-insurance-migrants/national-insurance-and-uk-state-pension

Not sure if it's clicky or not, sorry.

I am afraid as a member of the EU, the UK has signed up to freedom of movement and therefore that is what this person has chosen to do, exercise his right. With the freedom of movement and other EU laws a country cannot dip in and out. That is one of the reasons I thought was used in the vote of 2016.

Therefore Grandad, you may be an advocate of remain but may not clearly have understood what it meant? Many didn’t who voted to remain.

I worked for the DWP for years and was astonished at what the UK had to abide by. Even, appealing and losing at the EU court. What surprised me more, was when I left the UK. On my final day of work I picked up my P45 to take to my local tax office. I told my husband to wait for me because I only had to hand it over the counter. When I got to the office there were queues of people, I was astounded. A person was on the door directing people to queues. I asked what was going on. Apparently, it was the time of the year where people who came to work for six months were claiming their tax back so they could return to their own countries for the other six months living off the tax returned! Mostly Europeans from poorer countries at the time, 11 years ago.

Beggars belief.

Yes sure Cool I believe every word of that.

I know you want to call CoolioC out each time she says something you don’t like suziewoozie but she’s right on this one.

I know because I moved from uk to EU country in 2004 and claimed tax refund in November of that year. HMRC are happy to refund if sign to say you will not be working in UK again before the end of that tax year, in my case 2004-05.

You don’t have to believe me Suzi, it’s below in black and white. Would you also mind not stalking me because I disagree with you over Prince Andrew. Thank you.

Refunds for employees
TAX GUIDE FOR EMPLOYEES GUIDE5
Introduction
If you stop work part way through the tax year, you may be due a refund of PAYE. This can also apply if you have been on a temporary or ‘emergency’ tax code – such a BR or week one / month one. Other incorrect tax codes may result in tax refunds. For example, this can happen where workers have multiple part-time jobs.
If you leave the UK during the tax year you may also be due a refund.
What you need to know
Where an individual leaves work part way through the year, and is then on out-of-work benefits, or not working and not claiming benefits, it is likely that they will have overpaid tax. This may also happen where someone stops working and leaves the UK.

I posted this message on behalf of my cousin. He is 64 and has always worked in the sports industry but due to health problems he wishes to retire now. I said to him u should have paid voluntary stamps here but for whatever reason he didn’t do I agree it’s of his own making. But at the same point grandad we are still in the EU so people can move freely whatever u think of this. By the way I have worked since 16 and paid full stamps but have got to wait until I’m 66 to get pension. I too get angry when I see all who cd work at my age driving cars and going on hols while claiming disability thank you for the helpful replies I have told him. No one knows anyone circumstances anyone can fall on hard times be made redundant due to health reasons.

Having made my life in the UK from the age of 19 - I never paid into the Swiss system apart from a few months. Now we are here in retirement, I am NOT entitled to the Swiss State Pension - it sucks, but why should I expect it- having not paid into it???

People should be angry with the unfair system - rather than the people using it. Even valid systems are complained about.

My boss (who was single and childless) used to rant on about paying council tax 'To educate other people's children'. He chose to live in a large house, so paid a lot!