66 and not paid any national ins stamps

Pantglas you are not entirely right about benefits:
fullfact.org/immigration/migration-and-welfare-benefits/

Grandad1942 I agree with you, apart from your last sentence, although I agree everyone should consider how they are going to fund their retirement before they actually retire.

And this is where we enter the ‘deserving poor’ territory Grandad1943......!

my own thought is that if any person of any nationality, coming to this country can claim NHS treatments, child benefit, housing benefit or job seekers allowance, why is pension credit any different for a returning British citizen?

Damn! That's twice this week I've agreed with Grandad1943's posts!

I believe that I am typical of many in my early working life in that I found myself working long unsocial hours throughout the 1960s until the mid-1980s as an HGV driver. My limited income entierly went towards supporting our three growing children, but I also paid full tax and national insurance out of that income which I have never begrudged.

The above was and is still born of my firm belief that tax is what working people pay for a civilized society. My wife and I got very lucky around the time of the millennium in starting our own business and we are both now higher rate taxpayers. However, my attitude has not changed in regard to the need and requirement of taxation and never will.

I support British membership of the European Union and live in hope that it will be maintained. I also as a lifelong socialist support the current higher taxation and spending plans of the Labour Movement.

That stated, I also firmly believe that all who can work and contribute to the economy of this nation should do so and also while working provide for their retirement years should they feel they would wish to live a lifestyle above state pension provision in that retirement.

The European Union is not (as yet) a Federal state, although I feel I could support that should it be proposed in the correct structure, but at present it is not. Therefore, currently the EU is a collection of member states tied together by treaties and common directives, but in the main all still retain their own state systems of governance and taxation.

Until the above changes what any individual accrues, or not, in any separate EU member state by his or her working efforts should remain as assets in that state and be drawn as investments in that state. It should not be for any other member state to make provision for a person who has in no way contributed to that state.

The person who is the subject of the opening post has obviously I feel not made provision in Spain for an adequate retirement despite we are told having worked there throughout his adult life. He therefore now seeks to return to Britain in the hope that Britain as an EU member state can "top up" his self-made inadequate retirement provision.

That attitude is wrong in its entirety, and if any British State benefits are provided to him, that in itself is totally wrong. We have in this country people who have paid a substantial percentage of their hard earned income into our tax and National Insurance systems and are at present in retirement struggling to live almost on a day to day basis. Why then should this nation provide anything to the person who is the subject of this thread in that he only wishes to "play the system".

F**king Scum is the word I use in reference to such people and in that I make no apologies.

He needs to advise the DWP international Deptartment in Newcastle regarding his return. His Spanish pension will be topped up to the Pension credit minimum of the UK if there is any to top up.

I am afraid Grandad1943, that as he has worked in an EC country he is entitled to UK benefits. Infact, if the UK chooses to take in any people pensioners, people with children etc,etc worldwide they are entitled to benefits immediately. That will also included NHS.

Where I live, you have to pay in for 5 years before you can claim benefits inc Jobseekers. I live in Portugal.

Regarding the NHS, Spain ranks 7th in the world whereas the UK ranks 18th. Portugal ranks 12th and I class this country as poor.

The glory’s of the EU.

I am in total agreement with grandad1943. You have put fit so well.

It sounds like this gentleman does not have any money. It was unwise to not make any provision for his old age and now wish to return to the UK.

However, if he is still a British citizen and has not taken up citizenship in Spain, I think he should be entitled to return and receive a top-up on his Spanish pension. I doubt that he would be entitled to very much. Whilst not approving of his lack of forethought, I do feel he should be entitled to something (though I understand completely why some people feel differently).

In the case of your brother in law MawB, I would feel exactly as you do.

Welbeck, I am a very strong socialist but in that it is the core belief that this nation should support those who cannot support themselves through no fault or circumstance of their own making.

The subject of this thread is support that could or may be available to someone whose circumstances are lifelong entirely of their own making.

In such cases, people, as the one described, should receive nothing from the British State system.

He has alternatives available to him in the state he has worked all his adult life. Therefore if he cannot support himself in Britain in his retirement, then he should remain in Spain, as that is the country he has loved for so many years for reasons unknown to the members of this forum.

Plenty of people never "contribute" in terms of tax/NI though.

Fact is, if someone's entitled, they're entitled.

OP is simply asking a question about entitlement.

Seems a air enough question to me..

Grandad that is one of the most outspoken of your posts I have read in a long time.
And I have to say I totally agree with you
My BIL did likewise returning to the U.K. after a career in Singapore as a professor of a Literature. He has two sisters in Kent/London and being divorced feared a lonely old age. That much is understandable.
But, you should have heard him moan about the 1) state of the country 2) fears of not being eligible for NHS treatment 3) the absence of a State Pension blah blah blah
Yet somehow he seemed able to come up with the cash to buy a smart flat in Kent for not far short of £400k
He got no sympathy from either his brother( Paw) or anybody else. ??

is it fair that childless people pay for others' to be educated, or well people pay for others to use the NHS, or conversely those who die young, suddenly never get anything for what they have paid in...
it depends how you see society, whether you support the idea of the welfare state, how far you do, or whether you prefer a more American, every man for himself attitude.
there was a discussion on MN where an american said why should people who haven't paid get things, ie healthcare. and organs are given to people who can afford to pay for aftercare inc drugs. why waste an organ on someone who cannot maintain it. makes sense. why don't I agree...

If this person has worked on Spain throughout his adult life and contributed nothing to the British economy, why now should he expect anything from current British taxpayers. If this person has not accrued sufficient to allow for an unsupported living in the UK then he should remain in Spain.

Why does he wish to return to Britain for other than some "fantasy" to return to the land of his birth? I would suspect that he may be in need of our NHS and believes that somehow be will be able to procure some form of state handout better than what may be available to him in Spain

I like the vast majority (I am sure) who have resided on this Country through "thick and thin" over very many years and have through all that continually supported ourselves and our families from our own endeavours, I find such people's hope and wishes as the OP talks on completely unacceptable.

Should he return to this country and apply for any state service or Benefits then I would hope whoever receives such applications informs him he can F*CK RIGHT OFF.

apologies for the above but I find this person and thread totally "out of order" when we have in this country many who have paid into the various systems all they can for all of their lives and are still struggling, then this persons hopes should be "put down" in the very first instance.

Totally disgusting thread were no one should be advising this person on anything he may well try to claim.

True. Sorry, it’s a real trigger for me. I’ll shut up now.

Er....we seemed to have strayed off the point of the OP.

aggie That was your choice, and it’s a perfectly valid one. But surely you can see that women who chose to work and paid NI can feel short changed at being made to wait extra years for the pension they paid for, when those who didn’t contribute get the same, or even more if they are on benefits?

Everyone with children does the things you mention, and most work outside the home as well. Of course you wouldn’t have got state help if you were capable of working, unless your family income was low enough to qualify.

I have no issue with people who can afford to live on one salary choosing not to work, but it doesn’t seem fair that they should then expect a pension they haven’t paid for.

I find it hard to believe that anyone was ‘made to reduce’ their NI contributions. I certainly wasn’t.

If he’s ‘always’ worked in Spain, by that I assume you mean all his working life. If that’s the case, why should he come back here in retirement and expect to be kept?
No wonder it’s all such a mess, if the country pays out pensions, benefits, health care , for folk who haven’t contributed, no matter where they were born.

To cap all that, I couldn't draw on my late husband's pension because I wasn't pensionable age myself when he died, he was older than me.
I was meant to flog it all my life. What he hadn't done was to apply for his Merchant Navy pension being very ill at the time, so I've lost out on that as well !

What was unfair was the married woman's NI. I remember having a heated argument years ago before my NI was changed after I'd married as I'd been prepared to keep on paying the high-rate as a single because of the difference it would make in future years but because of red-tape and the bureaucracy that is encountered I wasn't allowed.

Why was I made to reduce my NI payment because I happened to have got married ? This was in 1959/60. There was no choice !

Asking ‘for a friend’? ?

This same post appears in ask a gran under the thread title 'returning home to UK'

Having lived in Spain for a while, I'm pretty sure the Spanish system would not countenance for one second a Spanish retiree returning home after having made NO contributions into their system and expecting support in their retirement.

While living overseas I continued to pay Class 3 contributions to protect my UK pension. Ironically since now it seems I'll die before I'm able to retire.

I “ lived off my husband “ for part of our Marriage . Idled away my time ,living from hand to mouth with no state help , nursed the children , walked to and from school in all weathers , scraped together a Christmas and made and mended to survive.
I did manage to get back to work and am now on a reduced pension

I agree with Maw. I remember reading about paying NI as as separate person to my husband, so I did and now reap the reward. There was enough publicity at the time I also think that benefits given in the uk should be equivalent to that in their home country only

The whole thing is a mess. I agree with MawB, and whilst I don't want to be unkind, I feel that women who were able to afford to live off their husbands (and chose to do so) when they were working age should do so in retirement, unless they have a joint income below the point at which they can claim benefit.

That way, there would be more money in the kitty for those of us who have paid NI for decades but are now expected to limp on for another six or seven years. Hetty58's friend will get more than someone who has worked full time and paid in for over 35 years, which can't be fair, but people have to live, so it's not straightforward, is it?

I'm not sure how the reciprocal EU arrangements work; but I feel that whatever was in place when people were working should be honoured, and if people were led to expect a pension they should be able to claim it. Again, it is unfair to change the rules so late in the day.