Post office farce

Working as a civil servant for the last 20 years, I have experienced the less than adequate IT systems over the years. Seems to me that the government ask an IT company to quote to supply this, this, this and this (stretching arms out wide) but are only prepared to pay for this (forefinger and thumb about half an inch apart), if you get my meaning.
Criminal that all these post office staff have had to endure this awful experience. They MUST be compensated and the PO managers/CEO who knew what was happening and didn’t come forward must be prosecuted. That’s called ‘Being Fair’

I don’t know what others thought but I thought it “stank” from early on . Disgraceful.

I know nothing about the law in the area of prosecuting individuals for their failures but I suspect that there is nothing that can be done. PV walked away with a £5m bonus and I bet there’s no way that would be clawed back. As for the computer company, I doubt they can be sued. But even if legal action is possible, the Govt should pay compensation now and then chase others later if it’s worth it.

Did no-one wonder where these poor people had stashed all this allegedly stolen money? I presume that their bank accounts were checked out at the time.
It’s dreadful that so many lives have been wrecked. To make matters worse, it looks as though whatever compensation fund is set up, a large chunk of the money will be taken to cover legal, and other costs. Shades of the Aberfan fund, which was raided by the Coal Board to pay for clearing the coal tip.

GreenGran78

Did no-one wonder where these poor people had stashed all this allegedly stolen money? I presume that their bank accounts were checked out at the time.
It’s dreadful that so many lives have been wrecked. To make matters worse, it looks as though whatever compensation fund is set up, a large chunk of the money will be taken to cover legal, and other costs. Shades of the Aberfan fund, which was raided by the Coal Board to pay for clearing the coal tip.

There's already been compensation made to some 700 (?) which worked out at £22k each - after legal costs. Those awards also need revisiting

I'm another appalled at this. You would have thought someone would have noticed the discrepancies and wondered why so many postmasters with impeccable records were suddenly stealing.

I don't believe any compensation will be adequate. I heard one woman saying she had lost her job, her reputation and her home as she had to "pay back" the missing money. How is she going to be adequately compensated?

Whilst I am sure some middle managers may have been aware of the problem and said nothing, it is those in the top echelon who also need to be investigated - they were being paid large salaries to oversee this organisation and failed.

Totally agree OP - lives ruined ? They deserve compensation but sadly it won’t be nearly enough!

My Mum was a sub postmistress in the late 70's for about 10 years. It is not easy work and occasionally due to a miscount of stamps/ pensions/ family allowance her books wouldn't balance. I can't remember the figure but if it was over or under by that figure a post office manager would come down that night to run through everything. Happened twice to my Mum, who got herself in a right state. Both times it was found and usually a human error. Family allowance slips sticking together etc and not counted.
If Mum had have still been there when the computers came in and started playing up like this I don't like to think what could have happened.
It should never have become this bad and how can you compensate for loss of good character in your community etc. Disgusting behaviour by the Post Office.

Sarnia

Absolute fiasco. Monetary recompense does not always put everything right, though. Many of those sub-postmasters were of the Muslim community and the crimes they had been accused of brought shame on themselves and their wider family. Lives and relationships have been ruined over this mess.

I agree with you Sarnia that monetary compensation does not put everything right. But are you saying that because someone was from the Muslim community the shame was greater for themselves and their families? I think the shame of a conviction and a prison sentence for any of these innocent people must have been horrendous. For a law abiding person of any religion or belief or none, the shame of being convicted and sent to prison is unimaginable.

This has been described as the worst miscarriage of justice in legal history.

I agree with all those who say there has to be an independent inquiry headed by a judge.

You can't blame faulty technology alone. It was purchased, installed and operated by human beings - and when things went wrong with the system no-one was prepared to accept that it wasn't God.

Monetary compensation for injustices only goes so far. All those responsible for ruining others' lives - and perhaps responsible for their subsequent mental distress, physical illness and premature deaths - should and must be made fully accountable. Prison terms would seem appropriate for the worst offenders.

It was a tragedy for the families of those driven to suicide.

I was in tears yesterday listening to a lady who was forced to have her baby in prison because she was accused of fraud in this Post Office scandal. The hell thee people have gone through for Years is a disgrace and heads should certainly roll for the way that they have been treated. Money in compensation can never erase the trauma but it may help to rebuild some lives.

One of my aunts was a postmistress for many years and I can remember her saying that the system was difficult to use when it was introduced. Where they had had to rely on their own knowledge and expertise, to balance the books, this system took it over.
What I can't understand is why the Post Office didn't seem to stop and actually wonder just why the books of so many local post offices weren't balancing, they just assumed that the system must have been perfect, so they must have all been on the fiddle beforehand.
I just hope that they are financially recompensed even though nothing can make up the time for those that were imprisoned or those that have since passed away because it took so long.

You know it Riverwalk, how is when these top managers drive people to this length don’t get any punishment, they will get paid off and promoted. Large organisations should be ashamed of themselves, but they won’t!!

Jay Lucy, it’s always the same, fall back to the default position and blame the ordinary worker.

Then managers will never be blamed, it’s the hierarchy, the get promoted!

Thank goodness justice prevailed, albeit late and hardly enough for some poor souls.

There are many countries where a scandal like this would never have come to light.

Nothing was done about the millions wasted on the National Health computer system. It was quietly brushed under the carpet.
My son has been working on a Government contract. It’s years behind completion, and the longer it drags on the more the contractors earn. Nobody cares. Billions are wasted on similar things every year.

GreenGran78

Nothing was done about the millions wasted on the National Health computer system. It was quietly brushed under the carpet.
My son has been working on a Government contract. It’s years behind completion, and the longer it drags on the more the contractors earn. Nobody cares. Billions are wasted on similar things every year.

Any wasted money is awful but here we are talking about hundreds and hundreds of damaged lives. No comparison at all. This was a different set of problems and issues

Lilyflower

Thank goodness justice prevailed, albeit late and hardly enough for some poor souls.

There are many countries where a scandal like this would never have come to light.

What justice Lilyflower lives ruined, PO managers moving onward and upward with even higher salaries. I don't see any justice at all.
As for your comment about countries, words fail me.

Those poor people my heart goes out to them all those years of agony it's a disgrace. The post office top management at the time of this fiasco should now be brought to task it's far to serious to let it go.

Someone 'at the top' (probably/possibly the whole board?) knew years before this decision that the software was flawed.

To have few cases of fraud escalate to perhaps fifteen a week soon after software installation was a bit of a clue.

In the public interest there ought be a public enquiry and those at the top held accountable.

It appears that Paula Vennels decided on a cover up rather than examine the truth.

I really hope this is examined. Yes, it will cost money but the truth needs to come out.

I am sure we all feel for those Postmasters/Mistresses who have had such a harrowing time

There is an excellent 10 part series on BBC radio 4 called The
Post Office Trial. Very gripping to listen to.

This whole situation seemed on the edge of unbelievable - my first thought was, could the Post office truly think that so many of its staff were crooks? What quality of IT were they using, and what poor IT staff they must have been employing to allow this to happen - and the ramifications have been terrible for those involved. Shameful and disgraceful - I hope all these poor people get decent compensation, which in some cases cannot help now.

Someone(s) needs to be held to account over this fiasco - apparently there were over 600 cases of supposed dodgy accounting. Did nobody ever think that this was a ridiculous number of people who were supposedly commiting fraud? This is of particular interest to me as my first job was at two sub post offices on a YTS scheme back in the 80s. I also worked at Post Office Counters head office in the early 90s. From what I recall from working in small post offices, the subpostmaster was liable if the books did not balance.

Sadly some of the victims of this miscarriage of justice have died - others went bankrupt and lost everything. Compensation needs to be swift and appropriate - and other postmasters who were wrongly accused should now bring their own cases against Post Office Counters. These pioneers have made that easier for them and I hope they all join together to pursue justice!

it came out during the appeals that there were senior managers and system designers who were designing and writing the systems who knew what the problem was and said nothing.

That's absolutely disgusting.