Trust wills and care home fees

Have been following this discussion and while agreeing with some and not with others.
I feel no one has mentioned that while people in England have to pay if they have property or savings, but people living in Scotland and Wales do not.It was said by someone that if you live in England then you have to deal with the England system but neglected to say that the England Tax payer also contributes
to the free system in Scotland and Wales.
The system that the England government give extra money to these countries is paid with England Tax payers taxes.
Is this considered a fair system

Doodledog, you make an interesting point. I think that any government, of whatever persuasion, will have to grasp this thorny nettle fairly soon, and imaginative solutions will have to be found to square this difficult circle.

I think the best thing to do is consult a qualified solicitor, for advice and choices
I do know someone who added their daughters as co-owners of her house and then they tried to rule her life. She sold the house with their consent and moved to another town. Then re-wrote her will to leave all her money to charity
Sad situation

To FFogglove
Sorry I agree with the other people I’ve paid my dues and still pay others who have never worked get all the benefits but because I’ve worked hard and saved I’m penalised and can’t claim any so why should I pay for a care home

MissAdventure

It must be time for the "feckless poor" slant, soon.

Yes, it has taken a while, but it has arrived. We have Those who spent everything on booze, holidays, facelifts, expensive living, but the poster missed out gambling, fags.....

My mother looked after 3 of my grandparents until I was in my mid teens. She was never given any help except a couple of weeks respite care for the grandmother who was bed bound, so we could go on holiday. When my mother needed a care home, she had Parkinson's, she had to sell her home to pay for fees. It wasn't till the later stages of the disease that she was deemed to need nursing care which was free, but very grudgingly provided.

Chocolatelovinggran

Demographic data is not a political view, it is a fact. Fewer people paying in + more people taking out does not work, mathematically.

So why not link fee remission to paying tax? If you have paid in for a pre-determined number of years, you get 'free' care, and if not, the costs are taken from the sale of your house or other assets?

I'm not saying that would be the optimum system (tax at source would be better), but if people were genuinely concerned about the tax figures surely that would be an option on the table?

If I hadn’t managed to get her nursing home fees paid by the nhs , I had been going to buy an annuity for my MIL’s card home fees.
You basically get quotes from insurance brokers for a price to cover the entirety of the frees for as long as the person lives. I was quoted £4Ok . Obviously if the person died a week later you’d have lost a lot of money but if they live a lot longer you’d save money.

Demographic data is not a political view, it is a fact. Fewer people paying in + more people taking out does not work, mathematically.

Thanks, maddyone.

It's so wearisome when people ascribe views that I don't hold. I don't want to see anyone do without care, or consider those who have no money 'feckless'. I just believe that people should be able to have autonomy over their own money, and that taxing it at source would be much fairer than taking it from some and not others when care is needed.

Twig14

Currently my mothers care home fees are £4,000 per month. Once monies in bank been used up I then have to sell her house. I believe once there’s £22,000 left then the local authority pay the care fees. I may be totally wrong but I did hear that residents in both Scotland n Wales do not have to pay fees. Obviously if that is the case then it doesn’t really seem to be quite fair at all.

They are autonomous countries Twig14. If you live in England the English government you voted for (or didn't) decide. If you live in either of the other countries, the governments their population voted for (or didn't) decide. The only thing we can affect is how the English government funds Care.

Those figures are eyewatering when they become a reality, aren't they. I have just checked and your mum will sadly not benefit from the new Social Care arrangements. They don't come in until 2023 and then only for new cases.

My comments arent snide.
They're out in the open, written down for people to see.

How exactly do you expect me to address the complexities of the system, if government, lpa, social services and the nhs continuing care system can't?

Doodledog
I understand your argument and I applaud you for continuing to make it in the face of rather stiff opposition. I totally agree with you. The vast majority of people who have to pay for their care are not rich. The one thing they own is their house. They have paid taxes and insurance all their lives. They have worked and paid their way all their lives. They have asked for little or nothing from the state. Their houses are usually not hugely valuable, even in the south. That’s why the whole cost of their care gets used up quite quickly in care costs. Many of our, seemingly well educated, middle class Gransnetters are anything but poor, judging purely by comments made, and sometimes pictures posted. Possibly they have already helped their children along life’s way with the many advantages that middle class children enjoy. The bank of mum and dad is well known among the middle classes. What about others, including some Gransnetters, who have been unable to do that? They want to leave their not very expensive house to their children. I find nothing wrong with that.
We do not charge people, from royalty to pauper, a single penny for schooling, NHS treatment, search and rescue (for those who get themselves into difficulty) and we do not charge a single penny to those who arrive on our shores needing help. We are a rich country that chooses to discriminate against old people at the time in their lives when they are most in need. We should be ashamed.

MissAdventure

It doesnt shut people up, though.
It's an alternative point of view, that's all.

But it's not a point of view, it is a slur and a twisting of what people are saying.

Rather than make snide comments, why not address some of the points raised about the unfairness of a system that negatively and disproportionately affects one section of society (the working/lower middle class whose 'wealth' is in homes that have not risen massively in value)?

It doesnt shut people up, though.
It's an alternative point of view, that's all.

Surely the incentive to save is to provide for yourself, just the same as it is throughout the rest of your life?

Its akin to wanting access to food banks because other people get food from them.

MissAdventure

It must be time for the "feckless poor" slant, soon.

Yeah, that's another good way to shut people up, isn't it? Imply that they are heartless and don't understand that there are those who can't save.

ALANaV, re France, a dd’s friend (French but living and working here) is obliged to pay €250 a month towards her father’s residential care back home.
Which she bitterly resents, because she says he was always not only feckless but also a rubbish dad.

Until I heard this, I wasn’t aware that in France children are obliged to subsidise a parent’s care.

Sorry I meant to say residents in care homes

It must be time for the "feckless poor" slant, soon.

Having a house to sell to get care when older is ‘saving for a rainy day’
I agree we all pay tax but free care for the elderly is for the poor.
Are you poor? No you have a home to sell to pay for your care.
I’m not saying it’s fair, it’s the way of life.
Those who spent everything on booze, holidays, facelifts, expensive living and are now poor will still get good care whilst those who saved and have been cautious with finances, will receive care only if they pay themselves.
Totally unfair that there’s no incentive to save and be frugal.

Currently my mothers care home fees are £4,000 per month. Once monies in bank been used up I then have to sell her house. I believe once there’s £22,000 left then the local authority pay the care fees. I may be totally wrong but I did hear that residents in both Scotland n Wales do not have to pay fees. Obviously if that is the case then it doesn’t really seem to be quite fair at all.

Having just made a LPA
We were advised that local authorities have became stricter about assets being moved intentionally.They can get it overruled .

What particularly angers me is that those who have mad NO provision for their possible future care are given everything whereas we who have saved, worried about paying bills and mortgages housing was so that'wealth can cascade down the generations !!....in other words, get the proles to buy their council houses and then WE WILL TAKE away their assets when they die ! simples....bet some actuary thought that one up ! I lived n France and employees have a lot deducted from their salaries (which makes them very angry !)...they deduct tax, medical insurance, and also pay a proportion of their salary for long term care ..............I paid 4,000 euros a month for my late husband .when he needed full time care ....my neighbour's mum in the same care home, paid 1,000 euros a month due to the fact money had been deducted from her salary whilst working, to pay the rest ! seems like a fair deal to me .....but again I guess if she had died before she needed care the money would have gone back to the state ! AND NOW care homes are saying they can will no longer be able to afford to stay open when the new rules come in as to the amount of money you can keep from your assets ....mind that is not going to be anytime soon ! what a shambles, as usual ...................I am off to Dignitas when I get to that stage ...£12,000 worth spending .....then any remaining moneys will be distributed as per my Will...I asked my MP to put her name to the Dignity in Dying bill ..........she refused saying it is the Government's position that assisted dying is not an option ....palliative and social care is by far the best BUT she failed to say there is NONE of either available ..............

Deprivation or intention to reduce assets has no limit of time. Some councils do though apply their own limits but basically it's not the when it's the why especially if there's was a likelihood care would be required eg dementia, long standing medical condition.
There is a short time when a recipient can be pursued, from what I remember think 6 months of receipt of asset, otherwise any amount assessed as deprivation of assets is included in an assessment and the applicant regarded as still being in possession.