Top floor flat landlord says no ‘sink’ fund for roof.

As others have said Leasehold services charge provisions will be set out in the lease and in England and Wales obligations codified in the landlord and tenant act 1985. This obliges landlord to get quotes and most modern leases allow for services charges to be demanded in advanced and estimates reconciled at the end of each service charge year. Not all leases allow for a sinking fund, but most do . Ask to see the quotes and the last 3 years service charge accounts. Provided the landlord follows correct procedure the all the leaseholders will have to pay to the extent the charges are reasonably reasonably and properly incurred (and might need to take out a loan if they haven't got the money) and the landlord will have rights to recover. The residential leaseholders have a right to dispute the service charge via a tribunal. The process is summarised on the Shelter site and the lease advisory service site.

Maggierose

Wouldn’t it be the freeholder’s responsibility?

It is !

Witzend

*karmalady*, a landlord may also be the freeholder. I know personally of one such - a property comprising 2 maisonettes, owns one, is FHolder of both.

yes of course that is correct. We used to be leaseholders within 43 properties and my husband and two others did all the donkey work in buying the freehold so that every property acquired an equal share. Some of them were landlords and they rented their properties out when they were still leaseholders and also after they became a freeholder

Leases need to be watertight as there are always people who will try and duck out of paying management charges. These charges accumulate with interest and thence need to be fully paid if the property is ever sold and it comes out before the seller gets anything. It is also very important that a sinking fund is maintained to a good level, bearing in mind potential costs such as lift maintenance, common area maintenance etc

Lease paperwork is complicated and lengthy with a lot of small print, detailed in the covenants

When we were helping my daughter to buy her first flat we pulled out of two purchases for just this reason.
In the first one the leaseholders in some of the flats could barely keep their heads above water and they had never paid any sort of service charge or into any sinking fund. The roof costs were coming out at over 12K per flat and most of them had already said they couldn't pay. The lease was very basic, it just said that leaseholders should share the cost of essenial repairs. I don't think that the flat was sold at all as nobody in the building was responsible for repairs or maintenance and nobody was going to take legal action to get the money from leaseholders.
In the second there was no sinking fund because the seller had started the management company just before he put the flat on the market. Effectively the management company would cease to exist when he sold the flat, and the responsibility of maintenance given in the lease was very sketchy.
In both these properties any work had to be done on an Ad Hoc basis, so no decorating had been done outside or in the shared internal spaces.

The Lease will say a lot Mokryna. It will contain all the necessary provisions about maintenance and repair of the property and your responsibilities to contribute to the costs. Are you sure you have read the actual Lease and not just the Land Registry register of your title? Leases are lengthy documents.

karmalady, a landlord may also be the freeholder. I know personally of one such - a property comprising 2 maisonettes, owns one, is FHolder of both.

I live in France but the property is in the Uk. I have read the leasehold which doesn’t hold much, however, I have spent best part of the day on the phone just to get things moving .

I started with CAB. They were so nice but couldn’t really help as they could only advise getting solicitors involved. I then phoned the famous coffee people heard their sticking points and then the person dealing with the landlord company, adding that it was a listed building, which they seemed surprised about.

I finished by writing the details in a, send to all email and already the feed back seems more positive.

Thank you for all your help. Owning a flat is so much easier in France.

Indeed, the management accounts should be given to everyone paying service charge each year, and should be read carefully!

I was in a similar position a few years ago. Freeholder said insufficient funds so I called for maintenance fund accounts ( which you should be given every year) and low and behold there was sufficient monies! They just don't like parting with it !
There are various organisations that will advise you op , if its grade 2 listed it is going to have to be approved work and quite a lot of red tape .
Good luck .

I hope OP has read her lease by now. I suspect she will have to threaten to sue the landlord to make him carry out the work and he will have to threaten to sue those who are reluctant to pay. The threats may have to be carried out and if the money isn’t forthcoming from all who should contribute loans will have to be taken out. The landlord should produce evidence that the work is required and obtain three quotes. The absence of a sinking fund smacks of bad management - far better to obtain contributions each year towards repairs and decoration than submit large demands when work is needed.

Yes, that is how it worked for my MiL. A share in the company owning the freehold went with each flat.

It is by far the best arrangement. Even if you have one recalcitrant flat owner. They cannot sell their flat unless they have paid all they owe to the management company.

In my case, the limited company is the freeholder ('freehold landlord'). The two leaseholders own the company by virtue of share ownership

karmalady You seem to be confusing landlord and freeholder. The freeholder owns the building. A landlord would have bought eg an apartment and is then renting it out. Renters have no liability. Op you need to be quite clear on the different distinctions.

It is confusing but in my property there is the freehold landlord and also leasehold landlords. We are all the freehold landlord because we own the freehold. Each flat is purchased as a leasehold flat, but if the owner then rents it out they become a leasehold landlord to their renter.

What is more confusing is the difference between the freehold landlord and the management company, because in our case we are both. We are a limited company registered as '(the address) Ltd' but also the freehold landlord.

I thought the OP lived in France. I wouldn't expect thee to be aproblem if it is in France because their laws are codified and written in great detail.

This is why France ued to be renowned for all its 'under the table' dealing as people reached private but legally uneforceable agreements that circumvated the official rules.

When we bought our French home over 30 years ago we were very careful to make sure that nothing we bought was subject to unofficial agreements.

I assumed that s she was asking us, it was to do with the house/flat she owns in the UK.

We live in a Listed house and repairs and if necessary relaying of a new roof should not cause any problems, as long as they redo the roof with the same covering.

We renewed our roof about 20 years ago and as we were re-using the same tiles and replacing broken and missing ones with like for like, a quick call to the Conservation Officer was all that was required.

I answered wrt an English property. I don`t think the OP lives in the uk

The sinking fund should have been ring fenced for building repairs. The `landlord ?` says that the sinking fund has been depleted due to past repairs. All this paperwork should have been freely available to the leaseholders. If the sinking fund money can all be accounted for then the leaseholders will have to pay up. The freeholder needs to obtain three quotes for the work. Then he needs to get the work done and bill each individual prperty

I would dispute that he should obtain the money in advance.

If individuals do not pay up then the freeholder has the right to take them individually to court

The details required will be in the lease documentation

You seem to be confusing landlord and freeholder. The freeholder owns the building. A landlord would have bought eg an apartment and is then renting it out. Renters have no liability. Op you need to be quite clear on the different distinctions. Perhaps write them down first because it is/can be confusing unless familiar

We pay a service charge which covers insurance and maintenance. Any over at the end of a year is paid into a sink fund. The roof is communal and the responsibility of us all.
Having a management company can make it easier to sort money and legal issues out.
I hope you can get your roof fixed soon.

Hope OP will answer, but I think so because of the mention of 'grade 2'

Is this a property in the UK?

Chestnut That is his problem. He should have thought it through 9in advance.

Yes I had 15 minute free consultation and they were excellent.

M0nica If the Lessor is responsible for the repair, then he gets it done and then bills all leaseholders for their share.

That won't work unless the landlord has oodles of cash to do the repair. It's £30,000 which the landlord may not be able to find, and what if the leaseholders can't or won't pay, the landlord is left with a big overdraft and would have to take the rogue leaseholders to court. Ultimately it is the leaseholders who pay for it one way or another, and the landlord has to get the money from them somehow. I agree that the landlord in this case has done the right thing to demand the money up front, although they should probably have factored this in to the budget some years ago. In this case £30,000 is a large amount which would have hurt even if paid monthly over several years. You only have to do the maths.

mokryna

I have tried the lease-advice site but I haven’t found what I need,

You can book a free phone call of 15 minutes with the Leasehold Advisory Service (as per the link above). You arrange a time and then you phone them. Have all the details to hand so you can ask your questions briefly and clearly. Write down the answers unless you can find a way to record the call.

By 'grade2' do you mean the National Heritage List that means work has to be agreed with them?

You have a lot of variables here. There are 2 things I think you should do in addition:
Check to see if you have any free legal advice (often found as part of a home insurance policy, or membership of a Trades Union)
Speak to your local council. I would begin with the Building Inspectorate, the team there can direct you to the best place for advice. These are people who can enforce necessary repairs, and who understand the legalities of listed buildings.

Thank you M0nica, I found your reply interesting. A relative had something similar, though I never knew how it was set up in the first place. But it sounds as if there isn't such a system in place for OP.

Get out a copy of your lease and read it. The responsibilities of lease holders and lessor should be given there.

If the Lessor is responsible for the repair, then he gets it done and then bills all leaseholders for their share.

When my MiL bought a flat in a newly converted house, the flat owners owned the freehold jointly through a limited company, named after the address, 10 Acacia road Ltd.

As the other 3 flatowners were young first home owners and DMiL was entirely new to leaseholding. I helped them set up the company and we set up a system for them to pay so much a month into the company bank account, so that when bills began to come in, they had a good balance in the bank to pay them.