DWP Proposing To Scrutinize Bank Accounts?

It depends whether HMRC decide to carry out a civil or criminal investigation Katie. If it’s a relatively small matter and you know you’re in the wrong or your accountant says you haven’t a leg to stand on then yes, pay up, penalties included. However if they decide to carry out a criminal investigation - for more serious matters - then the decision whether to prosecute lies with the CPS. A guilty plea will save the costs of a full trial and if imprisonment is a possibility the term may be reduced or possibly suspended.

The rate at which banks are closing branches, and the number of people who don't trust online banking might lead to a reversion to the use of cash, with people drawing out a sum at the beginning of the week and spending as they go.

I rarely use cash these days, as I rarely shop. I buy everything online, as do most people I know, but maybe that will change if people object to being accountable for everything they spend.

I wouldn't be at all surprised Doodledog

I have experience of this.and it is absolutely despicable y son had a stroke in September 2022
He last his normal speech,and has other health problems,not least of finding out after his stroke that he had 2 undiagnosed fractures in his back,due to Dr refusing to send him for an X-ray,saying it was muscular
.3 weeks before Christmas he was contacted on his journal,to. send 4 months of bank statements in to them by pdf.
He couldn't do this,and I had no idea how to.he was given 2 weeks to do this
Also had to send some ID by laying passport or driving licence flat on a table,then next to his face.After his he thought hat was it,but no,more to dos came
We found someone who did the Pdfs,
He. Can't speak properly has weakness in his legs,lost so much weight because he couldn't eat or sleep
He was feeling suicidal.
He rang me more than once in the nigh saying he couldn't cope

It was always with the threat of losing his UC
.At last he bought his was finished,but when he tried to log into his bank ,( he had saved password and pin ) he couldn't,we rang the bank and were told his account was under investigation,
We couldn't understand this after everything was cleared
I rang again and told ,no it wasn't now,but he had been logged out
I have spoken to my MP. and also to Mel Stride ,minister for DWP and pensions
Just got an acknowledgement that's all.
One poor lady had her disability stopped and mobility scooter taken off her
They are obviously able to get into bank accounts
My son was almost suicidal.
I pity lots of older people who can't do the pdf thing or have no internet
.
The latest thing they are owing to do is try to access eBay accounts and similar to see if anyone is selling
I don't tnk this should be legal
It was supposed o catching fraudsters,not targeting I'll and disabled,especially when there are medical records etc
Just 5 months after his stroke he was interview on a capability for work assessment
Absolutely disgusting.he hasn't left his flat since his stroke.except for hospital appointments which my daughter took him to
When he went for a check up after his stroke,his Dr didn't even know he had had as stroke
Obviously didn't look at his notes
Also he has had no aftercare whatsoever

Sadly there are a lot on the right-wing who are fine with thinking a few people are going into abject poverty or even dying. They simply cannot relate nor do the realise that is government policy.

veejayI am so sorry to hear you and your son are going through this. I wish I could suggest someone, or which group you could contact for help. There is "rightsnet" but I'm not totally sure what their remit is but it might be worth looking at www.rightsnet.org.uk/

I really don't know what is going on in this country any more.

The Post Office scandal, NHS doctors threatened if they wanted to speak out about possible crimes, sick and disabled people having to jump through hoops to try to get their entitlements, threats that bank accounts will be investigated, OFSTED bullying head teachers to the point of despair.

How has it come about that these bullies are able to intimidate people, sometimes to the point of suicide?

And, as paddyann pointed out, in the meantime others can get away with massive fraud and be rewarded for it.

🤬

Rafichagran, That is no true,there was no evidence of fraud in mun son's case,and he is not under scrutiny now
These DWP B""""""ds are despicable my son was suicidal.did nothing to deserve this and m sure others are going though the same thing.
It was just cruel,especially at Christmas when people were trying to cope with finding money for enough food and heating,fair enough if they really think they have evidence or strong suspicions,but to pick on people who have a miserable enough life as it is and are struggling is as low as they can Get

Urmstongran

Apparently 20% of Mancunians are claiming sick pay! One in five people. Seriously? That’s a shocking number of people. Topped by Liverpudlians at 25%. This country needs its citizens to fill all these vacant jobs and get working again. No wonder our country is flatlining. We can’t afford these high levels. Plus hotels to house migrants.

Can’t say I’m surprised.
OK, it was years ago now, but before I retired we all had to do online ‘equality and diversity’ training.

This consisted of max 20 minutes of questions with 4 possible answers. If you got one wrong it came back with a cheery, ‘Not quite right - try again!’

One question asked what percentage of local people we thought were disabled. I forget what I ticked - probably the 10% (the lowest option).

The ‘correct’ answer was 20 or 25% - I forget which. I still can’t believe that so many are actually disabled. If the question had asked how many were claiming disability benefit, maybe it was right, though.

The blame lies with those who fraudulently claim sickness and disability benefits. They then cause these problems for genuine claimants, and if the DWP don’t investigate they have no idea who’s genuine and who’s not.

I do agree but often an easy target or someone who has perhaps made a mistake in claiming is targeted and those who are intentionally defrauding the system blatantly get away with it.

I am not sure of more recent figures but fraudulent claims for DWP amounted to around 1.5% a few years ago . Much higher figures for tax fraud. Yes, both are wrong, but it seems that the weakest, most vulnerable are pursued more vigorously.

Tax fraud can be very sophisticated and its investigation resource-heavy. All fraud should be investigated but unless the DWP regularly make checks on benefits claimants I don’t know how benefits fraud can be detected unless there is a tip-off.

most of what everyone is getting worked up about has been happening for decades.

Banks have to inform the Tax authorities of everyone getting paid interest on bank savings and other accounts, Public companies inform them of dividend payments, if you have savings and investments with any UK based company they already make returns to the Inland Revenue. Your employer/pension payer also informs the revenue of details of your earnings .

A lot of benfit misclaims are found this way. Not all of it is deliberate. One lady I went to help when she was asked to repay Pension Credit.

When I investigated it seemed that she had spoken to someone from the Pension Agency, who had asked her about building society and bank savings. which questions she had truthfully answered, but she also had a savings bond elsewhere and she did not tell the enquirer because they hadn't asked. the lady was in constant pain so her understanding and attention levels were low at the best of times.

DAR
Thank you
I will ring the bank back.
again on monday
I am an appointee to speak for him
Also to those who say state pension isn't being investigated
I have screenshot an article which says it is
If I can manage to.post it
I know they can get into your accounts because my son has one he thought was closed it turns out he ou has 6p in it but the interviewer
Said what about the account that ends in ××××numbers
So they already know more than they are letting on he asked son to send details of that one
Tjem said its OK
I will take your word for it because he already knew

I don't see why people would object - if they have nothing to hide. HMRC already have powers to look into bank accounts, so why not DWP? I knew somebody who, mistakenly, claimed Pension Credit for decades- simply through not understanding the system. Mistakes and fraud should be investigated, surely?

veejay the picture you show is not an official government document. It is one written by a private individual, claiming to be a financial expert and it is wrong.

The state pension is not means tested, how much you receive is based on your contribution record and it is the government that decides that based on its own records of payments it has made. You cannot cheat on it. That the government makes mistakes and both underpays and overpays and then tries to get excess payments back, is well known.

Pension Credit is means tested. However in 10 years as a benefit adviser for older people, I did not meet one case of someone trying to defraud the system. My main experience was of having clients refused Attendance Allowance and then being granted it at higher rate on appeal.

Too many people make judgements about peoples suitability for AA based on seeing them walking around outside. If you had met one of clients walking down the road arm in arm with her DH, you would imagine she had nothing wrong with her. In fact, among other problems, she had severe Meuniers's disease that causes profound dizziness and at times it was so severe she could not get out of bed for days and sometimes weeks on end.

One day in the kitchen trying to prepare a meal, she staggered against the cooker, fell forward and her wig caught fire (she also had alopaecia) and nearly burnt the house down. Fortunately she had a wonderful loving husband, as soon as he heard her cry he was in the kitchen, pulled her to safety and put out the fire. Yet, as I said, see her outside on a good day and there seemed nothing wrong.

The reporting on this has been very confusing but I trust the Work and Benefits site and they agree with Monica's last post.

I think I may have linked this before but it's a very clear report a is worth a read.

www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/news/almost-9-million-claimant-bank-accounts-to-be-put-under-continuous-surveillance

My main opposition to this is more to how it is being used as yet another wedge issue when it could be seen as helpful.

As MOnica has described many refuse to apply for Pension Credit but they can also, having been awarded it, be very confused by what they have agreed to. As an example, people on benefits must report any change in their income. At one time, if you had small private pensions the DWP would calculate the annual change on this - and they were usually spot on. Why can't they use this new power to pick up these changes as they happen and, with the agreement of thec claimant, take the anxiety out of it.

At the moment, almost 9 million claimants would be caught in the surveillance net, including:

5.8 million universal credit claimants
1.6 million employment and support allowance claimants
1.4 million pension credit claimants
Any bank failing to collect and pass on data to the DWP will be subject to heavy fines.

The new system will begin to be rolled out in 2025, though all banks may not be fully involved before 2030.

Hetty58

I don't see why people would object - if they have nothing to hide. HMRC already have powers to look into bank accounts, so why not DWP? I knew somebody who, mistakenly, claimed Pension Credit for decades- simply through not understanding the system. Mistakes and fraud should be investigated, surely?

HMRC have not yet got the powers to ask for a monthly download for every taxpayer - although that too may come.

As I have said above we need to change the rhetoric on this and show how it can help.

Oh no! I hope the NZ govt doesn't start getting any ideas like that!
I suppose converting the pension to cash as soon as you get it might maintain a bit of freedome!

Monica
What I posted before might not have been official but I thi k this is what Steven Timms is saying will happen to everyone who gets a state 6

Sorry should say State pension

But having the right to look into bank accounts - which the Inland Revenue already has, is not the same as checking on entitlement and other income of State Pensioners. However this ability could be a way of checking on elder abuse and fraud, where family or 'friends' of an old person could have changed the destination account of the pension, or by continuing to claim it in their name, after they have died.

Surely you can see there is a difference M0nica. Until this law was passed, only accounts where the DWP or HMRC had reasonable suspicion could be accessed. Now it appears that they can ask for a blanket download of everyone's. Yes, they have chosen to use it only for means-tested benefits so far but even MPs see issues with the State Pension. The government has said it is constructed in this way is because that "it might be useful one day".

Sir Chris Bryant, saw things entirely different. “The House of Commons Library makes it absolutely clear that the Bill, if taken forward in the way that the Government are proposing at the moment, does allow the Government to look at people in receipt of state pensions.”1

Although I could see it actually being useful to some, to pass the responsibility for capturing changes in other incomes to the DWP, I do feel this should be done with their permission, not on a blanket basis. I does seem that the DWP have put themselves above GDPR rules (a Brexit benefit?) or decided the general law does not apply to anyone who has any transaction with government.

I know people hate me saying this but we do have examples of a government sliding laws past while telling people it only affects those they have been taught to hate - people claiming benefuts in this case. These laws are then used on the whole population. This does seem rather "nazi" to me.

1. www.freelanceinformer.com/news/ministers-rushed-through-amendment-that-gives-government-access-to-bank-accounts-of-anyone-claiming-a-state-pension-and-benefits/

I agree DAR. It is very worrying. The whole concept of a right to privacy seems to be under threat - first the NHS selling our data and now this.

I 'have nothing to hide', which is so often trotted out as meaning that I shouldn't mind my life being an open book, but I do value my privacy, and am very aware that what needs to be hidden can change in a heartbeat. Will the fact that I used to have a subscription to the Labour Party on DD be used against me, or that I contributed to certain charities that have fallen from grace, for instance? I'm not paranoid about things like this - I have a Nectar card, and link all sorts of expenditure to my email address and IP, fully aware that this makes me identifiable, but most of that is protected by GDPR, meaning I can opt out at any time, and I'm willing to trade a risk of privacy being compromised for the convenience of online shopping. A blanket right to snoop is very different, IMO.

I suspect that the ability to check the accounts of those receiving SP will be to ensure that there are no 'disposal of assets' before claiming pension credit. So people who have worked all their lives and saved money won't be able to future-proof their houses with those savings if their income is low enough to bring them into pension credit without risking being denied the benefits they have paid for if they are deemed to have deliberately spent the money.

I know there are those who will say that if they 'can afford' to make their lives easier with home modifications for older age they shouldn't be claiming, but surely even they can see how unjust it is to scrutinise people's finances like that, particularly at a time when they aren't even claiming means-tested benefits.

That's just one possible scenario. I don't like the road it could be taking us down.

I really don’t understand some scenarios presented - such as being able to see if you belong to a political party or where you shop. How much time do think civil servants have to trawl through accounts? They will be looking for undeclared income and assets.