WASPIs' Ten Thousand payment

Totally agree @growstuff , you can't complain there isn't enough funding for services if you are advocating cheating the system. It's not clawing back, it's fraud .

I am very grateful that my life in the UK is such that I don't feel I have to risk my life crossing water to seek asylum . Of course we need a more robust and quicker process but for those supporting the " rubber dingy " comment , how exactly would you fix this problem in a humane way .

I’ve done the sums on this. Had I receive my pension at 60 at the “old” basic rate I would have received a total of £39,058 over that six years. Instead I receive the new state pension which is £47.85 pw more than the basic pension.

Dividing one number by the other gives 820. That is the number of weeks at the higher rate that it will take to make up the six years loss pension - almost 16 years.

If I were to factor in income I might have generated on that £39,058, the loss is even higher.

Yes, the big earnings-linked triple-lock rises we have seen over the last two years have accentuated the gap between the two rates of pension and even a smaller triple lock rise will add to that - so the loss will be made up in less that 15 years but not by very much.

Life expectancy for women is 83 years now but is dropping. If I do live say 15 years beyond 66 I will break even. This was probably all part of the actuarial sums which informed the rate of the new state pension but in the short to medium term, overall, I am worse off.

Brahumbug

The whole point of the new pension was to reduce the cost to the government. Under the old pension you could receive up to £360 a week if you had the maximum SERPS, S2P. Under the new pension £203 a week is the maximum you can achieve. Most people don't even qualify for that.

@Brahumbug Yes that is totally correct that is why it was changed to a flat rate pension however £203.85 is not the maximum some people get more - I do, that is because people were giving a starting amount in 2016 based on two calculations what they would have got under the old rules and what they would have under the new, as I would have had a higher pension under the old rules I kept that amount, but couldn't increase it further

Brahumbug very true...my late mother's state pension was more than mine is now and I had to wait to 66 to get SP which is much lower than hers....with 50 yrs of work ...who is going to sort out this chaotic mess of mismanagement of WASPI pensions?

The whole point of the new pension was to reduce the cost to the government. Under the old pension you could receive up to £360 a week if you had the maximum SERPS, S2P. Under the new pension £203 a week is the maximum you can achieve. Most people don't even qualify for that.

I agree Chakotay. I have a friend who got her pension at 60. Because of SERPS in addition to her basic pension she actually gets more pension than me. I had to continue working (therefore paying NI & tax) for an extra 6 years before I got my pension. I have 41 years NI contributions yet, because I was contracted out for some of those years, I still don’t get a full pension. So, it’s not true in all cases that the old state pension is lower than the new one. Plus, across those 6 years, my friend received approximately £45k in pension that I did not. Who’s been ‘reamed’?

👍
No cake, though, sorry, my pension only stretches so far!

Looking forward to it Calli.

maddyone

Callistemon
Wow, £2 per week. You’re rich

Just checked - it's £3.15!

The Pre-97 pension minus the contracted out deduction is £2😃

I'll treat you to a coffee ☕

biglouis

The anomoly between the "old" and "new" pensions needs to be looked at too. What it means is that those of us who were born earlier have effectively been financially reamed. The tired argument about "well you can claim pension credit" does not hold water. It means that those of us who were frugil in saving in a pension plan (and having a modest occupational pension) can effectively find themselves worse off than someone who never saved a penny/pissed their money up the wall and is subbed out by pension credit.

So no wonder some (otherwise honest) people in my age group have a cash in hand side hustle which they dont declare. Cleaning/gardening/jobbing etc. You only have to look on the local network. They are just clawing back money which was filched from them by a corrupt system.

When the system itself is rotten and corrupt to the heart there is no incentive for the individual to be honest. On the contrary, there is a certain delight in cheating an unfair system.

@biglouis you have most certainly not been reamed as there is no anomaly between the two system as you seem to imagine

It is most certainly not true that those who reached pension age before 6th April 2016 only get the basic currently £156.20 and those who reached SP after automatically get the new flat rate pension currently £203.85 that is not the way it worked, pre 2016 the old basic was a platform that you could increase via any second state pensions many older pensioners including members of my own family get far more than £203.85 under the old system in fact SERPS alone can add up to £204.68 a week in addition to the £156.20

The new flat rate contains a element of SERPS as you can no longer pay into any second state pensions which is why it is higher however as new pensioners may not have had any entitlement to SERPS under the old rules the DWP used two calculations what people would have got under the old rules and what they would have got under the new rules a contracted out deduction was made to both calculations and the higher of the two figures was used for a persons starting amount, if on 6th April 2016 a persons starting amount was higher than the NSP their starting amount would have been calculated using the their entitlement under the old rules in other words if the rules had not changed they would still have been entitled to that higher amount.

As for occupational pensions and pension credit you have to realise that many people will get a lower state pension due to having one, this is due to the fact that many of these pensions were paid through a person contracting out of SERPS meaning their state pension would be reduced, however if that person had not contracted out and had a SERPS entitlement their state pension would be higher and they still would not get pension credit if it took them over the limit. Its pension income not where the income comes from.

And as for people getting pension credit for pissing their money up the wall, sorry you couldn't be more wrong, I have just helped a 72 year old gentleman claim it, when his wife was alive their combined pensions were above the PC limit, when his wife died he was struggling on the old basic because he never earned enough for any additional or private pensions but he still worked he started work at 15 and worked until he was 65.

Callistemon
Wow, £2 per week. You’re rich

Media are now comparing the people of the Windrush era, blood poisoning travesty, the post office to WASPIs ..all of these people are justified in fighting the Government for their compensation...but these billionaires and there several of them, don't really see the injustice!

I now have the princely amount of 19 pence added to my state pension thanks to those Graduated Pension contributions so many years ago.
I shouldn't laugh but 😂 don't waste it all on anything frivolous!

I think I get over £2 per week

growstuff

Primrose53

LizzieDrip

I’ll be very surprised if we get any compensation, regardless of who is in government. I’m not sure the WASPI issue will be a vote-winner - too many people are against it e.g. younger people who are struggling and see their state pension as a distant dream; older women who got their pension at 60 and think we ‘should have known about the age increase’. It’s potentially a political hot potato!

Agreed that it is a hot potato but no political party seems to care. They would rather spend millions, yes millions, every DAY looking after people from other countries arriving on rubber dinghies.

Their responsibility should lie with their own countryfolk first. We are here legally, we have worked, paid tax and NI and contributed to the economy yet people who have never contributed in any way are treated far better.

What absolute rot!

Not rot at all! If there’s money in the pot would you rather WASPI women get it or boat people?

Chardy you are correct the school leaving age was 16 in 1973 as I left in the June and started full time college in the September ...and my Dad passed in the October...

growstuff

There was another claim by somebody, born in the fifties, who said she started work at 14. The school leaving age was raised to 15 in 1947, so I took that claim with a large pinch of salt too.

Until 1973 (?) you could leave at Easter of Year 10, but I think you had to be 15 by the end of January, so I can't see how she could've left at 14.
After 1973, the school leaving age rose to 16. Again there were Easter leavers if they were 16 by end of January.

I worked in a shop in a shop when I was 15, but I wouldn’t ever say I started work at 15.

No, neither would I growstuff.
I was just pointing out that some people may say they did.
I remember paying some tiny amounts of Graduated Pension, and possibly some NI, though I have no specific memory of that, so maybe not.
I now have the princely amount of 19 pence added to my state pension thanks to those Graduated Pension contributions so many years ago.

The anomoly between the "old" and "new" pensions needs to be looked at too.

I just pointed out on another thread that another anomaly is that the gap between the old and new pensions will increase over the years, especially if the triple lock is applied.

How many people are eligible for pension credit? They may have tiny occupational pensions which means they can claim for nothing.
My DB and SisIL found themselves in that position, just over the limit to claim anything, whereas their neighbours seemed to be able to claim enormous sums of money and afford holidays to NZ, an expensive wardrobe and a caravan.

I'm not going to start cleaning or gardening at my age but no doubt some people may have to resort to continuing some kind of work to make ends meet.

Primrose53

LizzieDrip

I’ll be very surprised if we get any compensation, regardless of who is in government. I’m not sure the WASPI issue will be a vote-winner - too many people are against it e.g. younger people who are struggling and see their state pension as a distant dream; older women who got their pension at 60 and think we ‘should have known about the age increase’. It’s potentially a political hot potato!

Agreed that it is a hot potato but no political party seems to care. They would rather spend millions, yes millions, every DAY looking after people from other countries arriving on rubber dinghies.

Their responsibility should lie with their own countryfolk first. We are here legally, we have worked, paid tax and NI and contributed to the economy yet people who have never contributed in any way are treated far better.

What absolute rot!

biglouis

The anomoly between the "old" and "new" pensions needs to be looked at too. What it means is that those of us who were born earlier have effectively been financially reamed. The tired argument about "well you can claim pension credit" does not hold water. It means that those of us who were frugil in saving in a pension plan (and having a modest occupational pension) can effectively find themselves worse off than someone who never saved a penny/pissed their money up the wall and is subbed out by pension credit.

So no wonder some (otherwise honest) people in my age group have a cash in hand side hustle which they dont declare. Cleaning/gardening/jobbing etc. You only have to look on the local network. They are just clawing back money which was filched from them by a corrupt system.

When the system itself is rotten and corrupt to the heart there is no incentive for the individual to be honest. On the contrary, there is a certain delight in cheating an unfair system.

You're not clawing back money from any system - you're relying on honest people to keep the economy going. Frankly, I despise anybody who doesn't pay their dues.

maddyone

growstuff

There was another claim by somebody, born in the fifties, who said she started work at 14. The school leaving age was raised to 15 in 1947, so I took that claim with a large pinch of salt too.

Maybe she did a paper round or Saturday job. I did a paper round at 14 but have no memories of paying NI or Graduated pension. I also worked in a cafe on Saturday afternoons at 14 (only allowed to work half a day at 14, my friend did the other half) and cannot remain if I did or did not pay NI or GP, nor do I remember whether I paid either of those when I worked from 15 to 18 on Saturdays in a wallpaper shop, but I do remember paying GP, but no recollection of NI when I worked all summer in a factory at ages 16 and later at either 19 or 20 (can’t remember exact age.) I did a few jobs during weekends and school/college holidays. I also did Christmas post one year, no idea what/if I paid anything.

I worked in a shop on Saturdays when I was 15, but I wouldn't ever say I started work at 15.

The anomoly between the "old" and "new" pensions needs to be looked at too. What it means is that those of us who were born earlier have effectively been financially reamed. The tired argument about "well you can claim pension credit" does not hold water. It means that those of us who were frugil in saving in a pension plan (and having a modest occupational pension) can effectively find themselves worse off than someone who never saved a penny/pissed their money up the wall and is subbed out by pension credit.

So no wonder some (otherwise honest) people in my age group have a cash in hand side hustle which they dont declare. Cleaning/gardening/jobbing etc. You only have to look on the local network. They are just clawing back money which was filched from them by a corrupt system.

When the system itself is rotten and corrupt to the heart there is no incentive for the individual to be honest. On the contrary, there is a certain delight in cheating an unfair system.

Bea65

I did a paper round at 13 and at 15 worked in the shop until I got a Saturday job in the local Griddle Inn.. I didn’t pay any tax or contributions until my first full time job after my year in college- also worked 2evenings a week in night club as receptionist and was heavily taxed - classed as a second income -remember this well but I wanted a car hey ho could never escape the ‘tax man’ 😳

I don't think NI is/was payable until age 16

LizzieDrip

I’ll be very surprised if we get any compensation, regardless of who is in government. I’m not sure the WASPI issue will be a vote-winner - too many people are against it e.g. younger people who are struggling and see their state pension as a distant dream; older women who got their pension at 60 and think we ‘should have known about the age increase’. It’s potentially a political hot potato!

Agreed that it is a hot potato but no political party seems to care. They would rather spend millions, yes millions, every DAY looking after people from other countries arriving on rubber dinghies.

Their responsibility should lie with their own countryfolk first. We are here legally, we have worked, paid tax and NI and contributed to the economy yet people who have never contributed in any way are treated far better.