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Legal, pensions and money

Sale of home to fund care

(90 Posts)
Commonground Sun 04-Aug-24 12:41:05

I think I remember reading somewhere that,when a property is sold to fund care, the local authority takes all but £100k. I've tried Googling this, but all I get is info on Johnson's proposed £86,000 cap. Can someone help, please?

win Mon 05-Aug-24 14:03:26

OnwardandUpward

There is still Continuity of Care funding, which is rarely talked about and hard to access.

I think you mean CHC i.e. Continued Health Care which is different to continuity of care which is the 4 or 6 weeks after care you can get free through the NHS when you are discharged from hospital. CHC is actually talked about a lot and no one should be discharged from hospital without a CHC assessment if it is likely at all that this may be possible, but it is very difficult to get as it is totally Health led, whereas most cared for require social care. I know they often cross over and most people would not need the social care if their health was alright but that is another debate.

Shill29 Mon 05-Aug-24 14:06:32

Mt61, I agree. Plus by working for two years beyond pensionable age to boost pension and contributing to a small private pension I’m now be taxed on it.

Mt61 Mon 05-Aug-24 14:24:22

Shill29

Mt61, I agree. Plus by working for two years beyond pensionable age to boost pension and contributing to a small private pension I’m now be taxed on it.

Not worth working your back side off to buy a house, I bet all these people that rent, will get social care paid for, especially if they have no savings- I’ve worked in social care, I have seen it all 🙄

win Mon 05-Aug-24 14:37:11

Mt61

Shill29

Mt61, I agree. Plus by working for two years beyond pensionable age to boost pension and contributing to a small private pension I’m now be taxed on it.

Not worth working your back side off to buy a house, I bet all these people that rent, will get social care paid for, especially if they have no savings- I’ve worked in social care, I have seen it all 🙄

Then you should know that at least you have a choice of care if you have a house to sell, not everyone needs care anyway. There is a high proportion of the community who live happily in their own home until the end. It is becoming more and more the norm these days. Particularly because if you stay in your property or at least one of you do they cannot touch your property. You could also put in trust when you purchase, that way it is not deprivation of care costs. So many ways to legally avoid care costs and still own your own home. I am sure there are many GNs on here who have inherited property and are thankful they did.

silverlining48 Mon 05-Aug-24 14:46:38

We are all taxed with the smallest work pension which when added to the state pension totals more than 12,000£.

As for continuing health care it’s hard to get, but because the nhs looked after the elderly in long stay wards until it was privatised by M.Thatcher et al, they still have a responsibility.
So CHC may be paid by the nhs within very strict guidelines.

Nanna58 Mon 05-Aug-24 15:06:28

There are NO ways to legally avoid care fees and own your home as someone suggested- trust me I’ve looked!
Mother’s house money nearly all gone , if we have to move her I think it’ll kill her at 98
I shall have to sell our house and move to fund my husband’s care costs and be able to financially maintain a small place for myself

It’s an absolute nightmare

Primrose53 Mon 05-Aug-24 15:18:37

Nanna58

There are NO ways to legally avoid care fees and own your home as someone suggested- trust me I’ve looked!
Mother’s house money nearly all gone , if we have to move her I think it’ll kill her at 98
I shall have to sell our house and move to fund my husband’s care costs and be able to financially maintain a small place for myself

It’s an absolute nightmare

👏👏

I know somebody who thought she was smart and got some dodgy trust for her mother’s house. She got found out though and had to pay the whole lot back.

Primrose53 Mon 05-Aug-24 15:26:09

This explains the latest and is from this weekend.

The £86,000 cap was supposed to be in place by 2025 but a change in government means it won’t happen.

www.express.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/1931640/dementia-tax-social-care-social-care-cap-inheritance-nursing-home-costs-Rachel-Reeves#

silverlining48 Mon 05-Aug-24 15:39:29

This cap has been continually put off. Had the conservatives wanted it implemented they could have done it a number of times but chose not to.

I can’t read the express article but will assume it’s Labour bashing. They have been in power 4 weeks. Tories 14 years.

Maya1 Mon 05-Aug-24 15:43:34

When my late DH had 2 strokes in Jan 2023 and it was decided that he would have to go into a home our savings were going to be split 50/50.
Both social services and Age UK told me that our house could not be sold as l was living in it. I was also told by Age UK that l could apply for 50 % of my DH private pension, once he was in the home.
In the end no home could be found to match his needs as all the suitable homes turned him down as at 62 years old he was too young. They had a 65 year Age limit.
After much fighting with the hospital, l managed to get him hone with carers for the last month of his life.

Madmeg Mon 05-Aug-24 15:59:31

My mum had to go into a care home when her dementia became a risk to her safety - she was wandering the streets at night and knocking on shop doors to ask why they weren't open. I didn't live close by and knew none of this but all her neighbours did and never said a dicky bird to me. I learned when the police rang me one night to say she had been reported waiting for a non-existent bus at 3 a.m. and they had taken her home. I learnt even more shocking tales of her behaviour when I talked to her neighbours in more detail.

We had earlier taken out an insurance policy which would have paid a (substantial) amount for care fees after 3 years but in the meantime we sold her house and used the proceeds to pay for a nice (but not posh) care home. She died of an unrelated health problem after 9 months so we still had a fair amount of the house proceeds left but never claimed on the insurance policy so the (high) cost was wasted. I didn't mind that cos I always knew it was a risk but one I was prepared to take. Such insurance policies are now illegal.

As some have said there are two "levels" of care, one is where "hospital-style care" is needed (e.g. specialist care/treatment) which is free in specialist care homes but apparently needs fighting for very hard, and more general care where the person has no serious health issues but could have dementia. The costs are considered to be "hotel costs" so unless you have virtually no assets you must pay the entire bill. This would usually be from your income (pensions, bank interest, and you would get Attendance Allowance too) plus any addition the care home chooses to add (which can be a lot of money) so the home must be used to finance this - providing there is no spouse or dependent child still living there. It doesn't HAVE to be sold, the local authority will allow a debt to be accrued for the unpaid amount and reclaim it on the eventual sale, so it could be rented out to produce income.

As already said on here, that presupposes there is someone prepared to manage all that for an unspecified period. If the money runs out the LA will pay the care fees but if the home charges more than the LA is prepared to pay the person might have to move. That can be terribly distressing. However, many care homes charge lower rates in this case or they would not fill all their rooms. The private residents make a bit of profit for them.

Contrary to some opinions, care homes do not make huge profits - things such as legal requirements, insurance, the percentage of trained staff as well as general running costs and wages, never mind improvements, redecorating etc soon eat into profits. Plus many homes find it difficult to attract and retain good staff and have to resort to high agency fees to meet the need.

Care in the home is about the same cost as a care home with the problem of staff changing often, being absent, not being dedicated, and no-one else taking responsibility for it.

And yes, as with everything in life, there is something that grates when a person lives without making any provision for anything seems to get away with everything for free when others make the effort to provide for themselves.

OnwardandUpward Mon 05-Aug-24 16:00:51

Yes I did mean CHC. I have not heard much about it, but know it exists and that its mainly based on medical needs. I am not sure what the medical needs have to be as most have some and yes I'm aware that it's very difficult to get.

When the NHS was created it was supposed to provide "Cradle to Grave" care and it's not been the case for a while, sadly.

It is sad that so many continue without help and that the family assets continue to be lost because the government has also made rent extortionate and today's young people will struggle to get a foot on the housing ladder.

The question is then, at what age do we need to put our property "in trust" before it's counted as disposing of assets?

Bea65 Mon 05-Aug-24 16:02:24

My brother currently pays £8000.00 per month for residential nursing care.. he was denied Attendance Allowance

Primrose53 Mon 05-Aug-24 16:15:00

OnwardandUpward

Yes I did mean CHC. I have not heard much about it, but know it exists and that its mainly based on medical needs. I am not sure what the medical needs have to be as most have some and yes I'm aware that it's very difficult to get.

When the NHS was created it was supposed to provide "Cradle to Grave" care and it's not been the case for a while, sadly.

It is sad that so many continue without help and that the family assets continue to be lost because the government has also made rent extortionate and today's young people will struggle to get a foot on the housing ladder.

The question is then, at what age do we need to put our property "in trust" before it's counted as disposing of assets?

I got NHS Continuing Health Care for my Mum for the last 3 months of her life and it wasn’t difficult. Her GP had not heard of it so I got the forms, filled in as much as I could to save him doing it and said this was what I wanted for my Mum. He signed and it was sorted within a week. I am sure he thought I was a bossy woman but I couldn’t care less as Mum was my priority.😝

My next mission is to try to reclaim the 3 years fees she paid at around £900 a week.

OnwardandUpward Mon 05-Aug-24 16:20:23

Bearing in mind most care home fees start at around a thousand a week, it would have to be a very large home to rent out to break even...In an ideal world, a great idea but we weren't able to do this for my in laws because the home was too small to generate enough income to even pay half.

dianad Mon 05-Aug-24 16:32:43

There is no cap, sadly. You have to keep on paying until your funds are down to about £23500.
You are expected to sell your home unless it is still occupied by your spouse and on their death the house has to be sold and care home fees deducted from proceeds.

ALANaV Mon 05-Aug-24 16:38:29

what really annoys me is that if you have been prolific in spending everything you get care for nothing ! Where I live it is £8,000 a month ....even selling my modest home would'nt keep me in a care home for more than two years ....guess I could be euthanised after that (hope its not long before the government agreed on Dignitas !) grin

Livingthedream Mon 05-Aug-24 21:15:55

The local authority don't " take " anything. Care fees are paid out of that money, once savings gst below a certain figure, the la should start to part fund the fees, then fully fund the fees once savings are below, I think, about £14k.
Best for advice, either an independent social worker or a SOLLA accredited financial adviser.

OnwardandUpward Mon 05-Aug-24 21:20:15

That's true, tis the care homes that take everything....

which brings me back to my previous question that no one has answered yet: ( at what age can we put a property in trust for a son or daughter before we are charged as "disposing of assets" to avoid a property being sold to pay care home fees? )

Casdon Mon 05-Aug-24 21:46:04

www.independentage.org/get-advice/health-and-care/paying-for-care/giving-away-assets-to-pay-for-care#:~:text=Deprivation%20of%20assets%20means%20you,that%20is%20out%20of%20character
Hope this helps OnwardandUpward, it doesn’t look as if there is a definitive answer, it’s up to the Local Authority to call it.

Ktsmum Mon 05-Aug-24 21:57:54

NHS will still fully fund nursing home fees, but only if you meet very strict eligibility criteria and this can subsequently be withdrawn if you are assessed on review as no longer eligible. Any contribution to care home fees is assessed via financial assessment, usually carried out via social services, unless you are funding yourself on a private basis

OnwardandUpward Mon 05-Aug-24 22:29:38

Thanks Casdon!

My idea is, what if a couple, say in their fifties or sixties, put their property in trust for their kid? Then in twenty years or so if they need care, they don't actually own a home and can they get their care home fees paid because they haven't recently disposed of assets?

It's an interesting POV and maybe more of us should be looking into this to keep assets in the family and help our kids to get on the property ladder? It's not fair that the government haven't put a cap there to protect hard earned wealth.

Cabbie21 Mon 05-Aug-24 22:38:56

There is no way you can give your house away to your children without consequences, be it deprivation of assets, or Inheritance Tax etc.
But you can sever a joint tenancy and become tenants in common, for another reason, and then only 50% of the value of the house is used in the financial assessment. We did this some years ago, not to avoid care costs, but so that our children from previous marriages can all benefit when we have both died. So the intention is what matters. If I need care, my half can still be used for care costs, but my husband’s half can’t. Eventually when the money is gone, there may be nothing for my children to inherit. For this reason I have already given them substantial gifts.
But as a self-funder I, or my family, will be able to choose my care home, or to buy in care at home, rather than rely on the local authority.

OnwardandUpward Mon 05-Aug-24 23:05:10

OK I was wrong, I read the factsheet now. It's absolutely rubbish isn't it. Completely unfair! Substantial gifts are the only way, then.

www.independentage.org/sites/default/files/factsheets/2023-04/Factsheet-Can-I-protect-my-assets-if-I-need-care.pdf

OnwardandUpward Mon 05-Aug-24 23:09:13

The government have really, really, REALLY failed families Such a failure. They should have done the cap.