Higher and Lower rate of State Pension,. This really needs changing

Skydancer

The whole thing is ridiculous. I have heard that the UK has the lowest pensions in Europe. Why, considering we are one of the richest countries?

I tried to find out Skydancer by googling but instead found it was complicated by so many factors - like costs of living, including housing, health costs, whether people accept higher taxes to pay for pensions etc etc!

the same state pension

But it's nowhere near the same.

The new State Pension after 35 years of contributions is £221.20 per week

The old State Pension for older pensioners, after 39 years of contributions for women and 46 years for men, is £169.50 per week.
I believe this is correct, but the Government website is very vague about entitlements for older pensioners and advises them to seek specialist advice. At what cost?

We didn’t retire early, 60 was the women’s state retirement age for years. 65 for men.
Then it changed slowly a bit at a time, to reach equality at 65. My friend retired at 61.5 years another at 62.75 years etc.etc so it was gradual, no one jumped from 60 to 67.
I don’t understand this lack of empathy for those of us who worked and paid 45 years, yes me, yet get so much less. It’s not our fault it’s not yours, surely we should stick together.

Yes we have one of the lowest pension rates in Western Europe yet are supposed to be the 5 th wealthiest country in the world!

I don’t understand this lack of empathy for those of us who worked and paid 45 years, yes me, yet get so much less. It’s not our fault it’s not yours, surely we should stick together.

Me neither silverlining. With each % increase the gap will widen too.

Justice for all pensioners!

Well said silverlining

silverlining48

We didn’t retire early, 60 was the women’s state retirement age for years. 65 for men.
Then it changed slowly a bit at a time, to reach equality at 65. My friend retired at 61.5 years another at 62.75 years etc.etc so it was gradual, no one jumped from 60 to 67.
I don’t understand this lack of empathy for those of us who worked and paid 45 years, yes me, yet get so much less. It’s not our fault it’s not yours, surely we should stick together.

But I had to wait a full six years for my pension….the higher amount is because of that ……

I don't understand why people on the basic state pension want us to stick together. I worked six years longer and the last two were a slog. I lose some of my state pension because I have a occ pen, then I pay tax. The people on the lower rate don't lose money.
The people in New state pension have lost alot 45k I believe, and IF we get any compensation it will be derisory and alot of pensioners will die before they get it.
I also don't have Empathy because the basic state pensioners can get PC if single and have no savings, thus enables them getting WFA.
My partner has new state pension and he retired early and he disagrees with me, but he did not have to work like I did.
I am glad some pensioners got 6 years longer than me, I would have liked to retire at 60.

Poppyred

silverlining48

We didn’t retire early, 60 was the women’s state retirement age for years. 65 for men.
Then it changed slowly a bit at a time, to reach equality at 65. My friend retired at 61.5 years another at 62.75 years etc.etc so it was gradual, no one jumped from 60 to 67.
I don’t understand this lack of empathy for those of us who worked and paid 45 years, yes me, yet get so much less. It’s not our fault it’s not yours, surely we should stick together.

But I had to wait a full six years for my pension….the higher amount is because of that ……

You'll overtake us at some point if we all live that long! depending on the % annual rise.
I'm not explaining this well but I mean in total pension paid over a number of years, but I did read an article about this years ago.

I give up 🤦‍♀️

silverlining48

I give up 🤦‍♀️

You might be able to explain it better than me!

I don’t think they want to understand silverlining

In simple terms it's about pensioners on the basic getting pension from 60 wanting to get the same pension as those of us who have worked or will work 6 or 7 years longer.
I feel bad though for the poster on here who had to work nearly 3 years longer but still got basic pension.
If you have had 6 years longer you have probably had roughly 45k more than the new state pension, this may not be the exact amount. Like I say my partner and I have opposing views on this so the subject can be divisive.

I think by age 82 or 83 (using a generalised calculation as increases may vary) those women retiring at 66 on the new SP will have received an equal amount in pension payments to those who retired at 60 on the full old SP and thereafter will be financially much better off.

I'm sure the age I read about a while ago was 82.

If you have had 6 years longer you have probably had roughly 45k more than the new state pension, this may not be the exact amount

Where do you get £45,000 from 😮

Basic state pension rate x 6 years. Waspi have said this us what people on the new state pension lost waiting to get their state pension.

But it wasn't that amount years ago.
And for those with 35 years of contributions it s not thst much now.

The women who fall into that 3 year gap are the ones who most urgently need their case re-addressed.

rafichagran

I am on the new state pension, I retired at 66. The last two years were a real slog, that's the reason, I feel we deserve more.

The pension system is a mess, I feel bad for women though who were born in 1953, who had to work longer but still recieved the basic state pension.
I get the new state pension but less money per week as I have occ pension which I pay tax on. The old state pension do not take your occ pen into account.
The whole system is a mess

Those born before April 1953 get the old state pension, but still had to wait several years to get their pension.

1953 women were particularly badly hit. Those born January 1953 received their pension several years before those born in December 1953. This was due to Cameron/Osborne changing the delivery of raising state pension age with the Pension Act 2011.

Women who paid a lower stamp get a lower pension. That's fair enough, but I understand that many didn't have that made clear to them at the time, which is not fair at all.

On the other hand, people on the old pension could top it up with SERPS, and could inherit their husbands' pensions, so many women, such as my mum (who didn't work for most of her married life but paid as much as possible into SERPS when she did get a job. She did this at about age 48 before retiring at 55 and inheriting my father's pensions at 57) yet has a higher pension income than I do. I am still waiting for a state pension and will have clocked up 50 years of working and paying NI when I finally get it. My occupational pension (which was not free) is taxed, as are my earnings.

I retired in my late 50s as my husband is older than me, and the plan had been that we would retire when I was 60 and he 65. I was able to do that as I'd saved enough to get me through to 60 when I could claim my occupational pension (which is much reduced because of the laws forbidding people without permanent contracts to join occupational pension schemes which were in place when I was younger) but many women are not in that position.

In order to get the full state pension I had to pay 8 years of voluntary contributions - about £6000 I think - as I was contracted out, and although I am still working now (and still paying tax and NI) I don't work every month, so don't clock up full years of contributions, and partial ones count for nothing. If (heaven forbid) my husband died, I would get some of his occupational pension, but his state one will die with him, which was not the case for women on the old pension.

The new pension is only a good deal if compared to those on the old one who didn't pay the full stamp and SERPS contributions, who don't claim from their husbands' pensions and who don't get pension credit. SERPS is no longer a thing, so however much NI you pay your pension is capped at £220 a week, you can't inherit someone else's state pension, and I don't think anyone on the new pension can claim PC. It's not just the few pounds a week that PC brings in but the gateway to so many benefits and allowances that are denied women on the new pension - so it's yet another example of how working and contributing counts against people in the end.

It's a mess. I would absolutely support the differentials if we'd all had a choice about whether to pay W or X amount in return for Y or Z pension, but that wasn't the case. All we can do is what is asked of us at the time, and whereas I don't approve of giving pension contributions to those who choose not to work, it wouldn't be fair to withdraw the payments those subsidies bought, as the claimants were led to expect the state to pay for their pensions, and acted in good faith.

Going forward, I would love to see a proper binding contract, so everyone is told that if they pay £X for Y years they will get Z pension, with a review every five years so they can work out what to do if there is a shortfall. It should also be made clear what will and will not be available to those who opt out of contributing. I don't mean those who are ill or disabled, or those looking after the ill or disabled, but those who choose to stay at home with school age children and expect others to pay for it.

Are people on the newer state pension rate entitled to claim housing benefit? This is a huge help for people renting their homes.

Sorry if I’ve missed the answer in all the details.

silverlining48

We didn’t retire early, 60 was the women’s state retirement age for years. 65 for men.
Then it changed slowly a bit at a time, to reach equality at 65. My friend retired at 61.5 years another at 62.75 years etc.etc so it was gradual, no one jumped from 60 to 67.
I don’t understand this lack of empathy for those of us who worked and paid 45 years, yes me, yet get so much less. It’s not our fault it’s not yours, surely we should stick together.

It didn’t change slowly for some of us! Mine went from 60 to 66 in one jump!

Doodledog

Women who paid a lower stamp get a lower pension. That's fair enough, but I understand that many didn't have that made clear to them at the time, which is not fair at all.

On the other hand, people on the old pension could top it up with SERPS, and could inherit their husbands' pensions, so many women, such as my mum (who didn't work for most of her married life but paid as much as possible into SERPS when she did get a job. She did this at about age 48 before retiring at 55 and inheriting my father's pensions at 57) yet has a higher pension income than I do. I am still waiting for a state pension and will have clocked up 50 years of working and paying NI when I finally get it. My occupational pension (which was not free) is taxed, as are my earnings.

I retired in my late 50s as my husband is older than me, and the plan had been that we would retire when I was 60 and he 65. I was able to do that as I'd saved enough to get me through to 60 when I could claim my occupational pension (which is much reduced because of the laws forbidding people without permanent contracts to join occupational pension schemes which were in place when I was younger) but many women are not in that position.

In order to get the full state pension I had to pay 8 years of voluntary contributions - about £6000 I think - as I was contracted out, and although I am still working now (and still paying tax and NI) I don't work every month, so don't clock up full years of contributions, and partial ones count for nothing. If (heaven forbid) my husband died, I would get some of his occupational pension, but his state one will die with him, which was not the case for women on the old pension.

The new pension is only a good deal if compared to those on the old one who didn't pay the full stamp and SERPS contributions, who don't claim from their husbands' pensions and who don't get pension credit. SERPS is no longer a thing, so however much NI you pay your pension is capped at £220 a week, you can't inherit someone else's state pension, and I don't think anyone on the new pension can claim PC. It's not just the few pounds a week that PC brings in but the gateway to so many benefits and allowances that are denied women on the new pension - so it's yet another example of how working and contributing counts against people in the end.

It's a mess. I would absolutely support the differentials if we'd all had a choice about whether to pay W or X amount in return for Y or Z pension, but that wasn't the case. All we can do is what is asked of us at the time, and whereas I don't approve of giving pension contributions to those who choose not to work, it wouldn't be fair to withdraw the payments those subsidies bought, as the claimants were led to expect the state to pay for their pensions, and acted in good faith.

Going forward, I would love to see a proper binding contract, so everyone is told that if they pay £X for Y years they will get Z pension, with a review every five years so they can work out what to do if there is a shortfall. It should also be made clear what will and will not be available to those who opt out of contributing. I don't mean those who are ill or disabled, or those looking after the ill or disabled, but those who choose to stay at home with school age children and expect others to pay for it.

I agree, it’s a complete mess!

rafichagran

Basic state pension rate x 6 years. Waspi have said this us what people on the new state pension lost waiting to get their state pension.

Plus if you chose not to retire at 60 under the old system, and carried on working your NI contributions ceased.

Poppyred

Those on the lower rate were able to retire 6years (!!)before the ones on the higher rate and are able to get pension credit if you don’t have an occupational/private pension as well.

We WASPIs had to work another SIX years for the same state pension and the higher amount reflects this. Imagine having to work for so much longer if you have ill health and struggling!!

I totally agree with you as another WASPI woman

Imagine having to work for so much longer if you have ill health and struggling!!

Imagine having to leave work in your late 50s through ill health.